Starting Problems....

Post by **Cardi** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:10 am

I'm having a few problems getting the Moggie to start recently can anyone help...When you turn ignition on there is plenty of juice (not checked with a meter but it appears fine). When you turn it the next stage to start, the starter motor can only make a single feeble turn before the juice goes. I have at this point resorted to turning it off then switching the ignition back on and hand starting...It runs fine then and happily manged a 60 mile journey so I don't think its generator based as the battery I think is fine.

Its a 1969 four door saloon that I've borrowed off my girlfriend whilst I don't have a car...Unfortunately I know nothing of Moggies as I've always been an aircooled VW man...Feel a bit stupid really and my girlfirend is away for a few weeks...

Post by **Jefftav** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:14 am

Sounds like your starter motor could be the problem. An exchange one from Lucas is about £25ish and they can test your old one for £5 then if it's duff they refund this on your new unit (at least in Inverness they do). Before parting with your hard earned check the basics first like cleaning up connections around the battery and stater motor especially the connection from the battery to the body. Also disconnect the baterry and give it a charge as might not be holding its full charge or the charge could be draining away.

I did have a problem when I rebuilt my engine and din't quite get the timing right that meant the engine would only give a small turn and then jam completely but presumably your car has been running fine before theis problem occured.

Hope this helps, Jeff

Post by **ColinP** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:05 am

Cardi,

Considering that the starter motor takes around 80 amps, the voltage usually drops from 12v (nominal - usually ~13v) to about 9v during starting, you've just described the symptoms of battery death.

As Jeff suggests, make sure the contacts are all clean, check the battery electrolyte level, and be prepared for a new battery!

Colin

Post by **Cam** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:14 am

you've just described the symptoms of battery death.

Certainly sounds likely.

As Jeff suggests, make sure the contacts are all clean, check the battery electrolyte level, and be prepared for a new battery!

Seconded!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:58 am

It runs fine then and happily manged a 60 mile journey so I don't think its generator based as the battery I think is fine.

How long has the vehicle been stood? Batteries will drain over time (much worse with an old battery). A 60 mile drive is nliklely to charge a batery if you had lights and heater on. As already mentioned, try charging the battery and it it still isn't good then get a battery test done (using a high current battery testing device that a decent auto electrician or servicing / battery sales place should have - a multimeter will NOT tell you if your battery is gone, it will only tell you if it is flat)

If you battery gives a good reading on the high current test device, then it is time to think about the starter motor.

Post by **Kevin** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:34 pm

Unfortunately I know nothing of Moggies as I've always been an aircooled VW man

No excuses now vw`s have batteries.
Think simple, you presumadly have a hydrometer to test the battery with to see if there is a charge in the battery ? how do you know its fine if not.

Post by **Alec** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:16 pm

Kevin,
unfortunatey with progress it's now rare to be able to use a hydrometer (sealed batteries). However some have state of charge indicator, a little window which glows green if the battery is charged. However, as Ray says, you need a battery load tester to see if it is functional. The distinction is available capacity versus being charged up.

Alec

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:45 pm

Also... you may want to check the dynamo... I know when I started to experience a loss in charge from the dynamo (thus letting the battery run low) that Hebe didn't start so easily as she does now with a nice new Alternator...

Post by **Cardi** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:57 am

The car has not been stood still at all really. It's been my daily driver since august when I sold my Karmann Ghia. It was starting fine last week, I went away for a long weekend just gone and when I came to start Morris on tuesday morning to drive to work (only 5-10miles) he wouldn't start. It been going on all week, but typical of all cars oddly. He needs hand starting in the morning but come 5 o'clock when I drive home he will start fine! Once I get home if I need to pop out in the evening he'll need hand starting again. All very odd, I guessed it may be a loose connection to be this intermitant but I cannot find the right one at all. I'm going to change the fanbelt as thats loose but I get a feeling its probably the starter motor rather than the battery as it does start fine at 5 when I leave work!

cheers for the replies so far guys...

Post by **ianselva** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:06 am

It is still likely to be the battery as it takes a lot more to turn over after a night in the cold than a day parked up in the daytime temperatures.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:25 am

As it will start in the evening - I would also say it is battery related.

How long is your journey to work? If you drive in the morning without lights, on a 15 or 20 mile journey you may be charging the battery enough for later in the evening - Also the temperature affects battery performance so when it's 5 degrees in the morning the battery will be worse than when it is 10 degrees in the early evening.
If you are doing lots of journeys with the lights on and also lots of idling (in traffic jams etc..) you can gradually discharge the battery.
When I was using a Minor every day over Winter I would charge the battery once few months. It wasn't a lot off effort to put the extension lead through the letter box and the battery charger under the bonnet. Charging the battery occasionally in winter every year still adds up to a lot less time than fitting an alternator.
Personaly I avoid alternators if at all possible as I have been left stranded far too many times because of faulty alternators, and I know I'm not the only one.
If you are running a lot of other electronics e.g. 'fog lights, heated window, big stereo etc..' then an alternator is hard to avoid, but certainly not essential on an unmodified car.

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:59 am

Kevin,
unfortunatey with progress it's now rare to be able to use a hydrometer (sealed batteries).

Alec you are right of course just me without my thinking cap on

, and looking at the remarks it cetainly sounds like a duff battery, and anywhere that sells batteries should do a free drop test anyway.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:38 am

rayofleamington wrote: Personaly I avoid alternators if at all possible as I have been left stranded far too many times because of faulty alternators, and I know I'm not the only one.

Me too! a dynamo is far more reliable.

I must say that the problem certainly sounds like a discharged battery.

Kevin wrote:
Alec wrote: Kevin,
unfortunatey with progress it's now rare to be able to use a hydrometer (sealed batteries).
Alec you are right of course just me without my thinking cap on , and looking at the remarks it cetainly sounds like a duff battery, and anywhere that sells batteries should do a free drop test anyway.

Well, I bought a 'sealed for life' battery a few years ago and it ran low on water...... luckily (and oddly) it had a strip you could remove to top it up with! So I could also test it with a hydrometer..... I don't think ALL ''sealed for life batteries' are actually sealed.

Post by **doobry** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:45 am

I don't think ALL ''sealed for life batteries' are actually sealed.

true - Even brand new cars (I was just looking under the bonnet of one) have 'sealed for life batteries' but press when I pressed down on the thin 'sealed for life' label and you can tell that there are 6 plastic screw caps under it

Post by **57traveller** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:28 am

The Halfords "maintenance free" batteries (the ones I've had) have a removable screw out plug fitted to each cell and flush with the top of the battery.
Had similar symptoms to Cardi's this time last year. Car would start fine daytime, even if idle for a few hours, but when left overnight, in a garage, would more often than not refuse to turn over in the morning. New battery was the solution.