1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

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estwdjhn
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1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

I've been thinking about buying a minor since slightly before the dawn of time - then ran into this at a farm auction this weekend, and raised my hand one too many times, and ended up digging £400 (and a few moths) out of the wallet...

It looks really rough, but on poking about underneath seems fairly solid on most of the problem areas (I'll know more once I've rolled it over and been able to have a proper look underneath). Worst bit I've found so far is down the rear chassis legs where the back of the leaf springs mount.

It's currently got a 1098 which after getting it home I got to run (after a fashion), but evil plans have been hatched for a sleeper style build with a big (~2L) turbo diesel of some sort or another. Current plan is to get it solid and tested with the 1098 first, and then start looking seriously at options for more power and MPG...

One slightly weird thing is it's currently got a tax class of "private HGV" - I've no idea how. According to DVLA, it was last taxed in 1996, so I don't know where it's been hiding since then - someone has obviously done a fair bit of work on her at some point, but judging by the green slime growth, it was a little while ago...[frame]Image[/frame]
doctormorris
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by doctormorris »

Hi John...

That 2L diesel wouldn't happen to be of land rover origin would it?

I fancy doing something similar with one of mine, however I got 40mpg on a 500 mile trip to Scotland and back in our standard tourer, overloaded with kids and dogs and luggage and stuff this week, and I seldom dropped below 50 the whole time! I doubt I'd get much better with a diesel!

Good luck with the moggy, I hope you bring your usual brand of optimism to this forum too! I look forward to seeing the results!

Steve
1965 Minor 1000 Saloon 'Helga'
1967 Minor 1000 Traveller 'Katie'
1969 Minor 1000 Traveller 'Red'
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

Howdo - I tried to ring you before I bought this for your options, but was foiled by the fact you must have changed your phone number since I last spoke to you (in fairness, it's probably a few years).

I've not really decided on power-plant yet, but while it would be rather mental, I'd ruled out a 200tdi as too big...

As I see it there are a few sane contenders:

Perkins Prima 2.0TD - 81 hp at 4500 rpm and 116 lb·ft at 2500 rpm
Citroen/Peugeot 1.9TD (XUD9) - between 77 and 90hp depending on version
Citroen/Peugeot 1.5D (TUD5) - 56 hp and 70 lb·ft
Isuzu (Vaxhaul Astra etc) 1.7D - between 57hp (77 lb·ft)and 82hp(124 lb·ft) depending on version
Ford 1.8D - 60hp (I can't easily find a torque figure).

A lot depends on what gearbox I go with - the ford engine can (I think) be got with a bellhousing that goes straight onto a type 9 box, and there is apparently a rwd pug gearbox that bolts to a XUD which can be got to fit in a minor.

I was reading a thread on one of the other forums which involved fitting a lexus 6 speed box - which looks a better match for a minor than it first sounds.

The other option is to keep the 1098 and gas it - that is probably the easiest option to get a decent MPG figure (I can't really live with 40mpg on petrol, it's cheaper to run my 2.6 powered Landrover on LPG), but I fancy the grin factor of a powerful diesel to show the local chavs whose boss.
(Based on most of those engines, I'm looking at about 100bhp/tonne - a current pug 206 is between 50-75bhp/tonne depending on engine option, and a current BMW 3 series is about 110bhp/ton)
doctormorris
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by doctormorris »

Not surprising you couldn't get me on my phone, I went swimming with it the other week and it's never been the same since!

I'll PM you my number. If you need a hand give me a shout. Always happy to come over and lend a hand (I've only 3 moggy projects, one Land Rover one and a Cinema Organ installation ongoing on at the moment, so have some spare capacity at present :lol: )...

I think 40mpg isn't too bad out of a moggy, it's the small fuel tank that's the big problem really, especially if you're used to the larger ones you get in Land Rovers...

I have seen the prima fitted into a moggy, and I did put one into one of my old Land Rovers, however it was out of it's depth in there and wouldn't pull the vehicle until the turbo kicked in, the lighter moggy is a much more appropriate setting for that engine. The ford one can be done, with a Cortina bellhousing to the type 9 IIRC, I think I have some info somewhere, I'll dig it out John.

Steve
1965 Minor 1000 Saloon 'Helga'
1967 Minor 1000 Traveller 'Katie'
1969 Minor 1000 Traveller 'Red'
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

A prima powered moggie is amongst the more tempting options out there - although I'm not sure what gearbox one would use...

I popped past where it lived today on my way to fix a broken JCB Loadall for a mate (major electrical failure on the four wheel steering gubbins - I spent a happy afternoon rewiring it so it worked), and had the decent camera with me, so here are some better pictures of my new "pride and joy"...[frame]Image[/frame]
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

[frame]Image[/frame]
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

[frame]Image[/frame]
doctormorris
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by doctormorris »

Looks surprisingly solid... Considering where it's been stored!

I like the maroon 'b' colour also!

I wonder if you could cobble an MGB box onto the prima? or alternatively a Spitfire 1500 overdrive unit might be interesting... I just happen to have one of each... :wink:
1965 Minor 1000 Saloon 'Helga'
1967 Minor 1000 Traveller 'Katie'
1969 Minor 1000 Traveller 'Red'
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

Long time no posts - not least because I've been busy doing other things...

Finally I've got round to starting to sort the old shed out. Unfortunately, it's been one step forward, several steps back...

I took her down to work (I work for a firm that makes and repairs steam engine boilers, so we have loads of rather handy kit and quite a big yard), picked her up with the 25T yard crane and carted her over to the quiet corner where all our projects hang out (on one side of her "plot" is a LWT landrover, on the other side a Fordson Supermajor).

Image

As I was waiting (with her about 15' in the air - I'd had to lift her that high to clear the gantry crane's tracks) for her to stop swinging a bit so I could lower her down, disaster struck - the back end came round, touched a (small) overhanding branch from a tree, and she gradually slid through the slings (as I watched pretty helplessly), flipped upside-down and descended all too rapidly, to land rather heavily upsidedown, with a pretty sickening crunch.

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As I watched her descend, I'd already mentally written her off - I mean, cars don't generally take kindly to being dropped on their roofs from a great height. Anyway, I figured I'd better see what had happened, and collect the wreckage - so I went and had a look. Imagine my surprise on finding that while the bonnet and wings were a bit flat, the cabin was still intact, and, and as far as I could tell, nothing on the underlying shell was significantly damaged, apart from possibly the front inner wings.

That meant a certain amount of head scratching about how to get her back the right way up without doing more damage...

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We then strapped the hiab on work's lorry (needless to say, my boss had happened to show up moments after I dropped the car) to the front and pulled her back round level before lowering her to the ground... before picking her up again, and flying her to her new location. (Incidentally, the "out of tracking" on the front axle doesn't seem to be dropping related - looking at old pictures she's been like that since I bought her - I suspect an incompetent previous owner).

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The good news is that now I've had a good chance to look underneath, she really isn't very rusty - although doubtless things will look worse before they get better. My mission for Monday night after work probably involves cutting the remains of the bonnet off so I can see what damage has occurred under in there, then taking the engine. box and interior out so I can turn her over (in a more controlled way) and get welding.

I've some (not very special) spare wings and a spare bootlid, but if anyone has a bonnet, grill panel the bonnet catch panel (not sure what it's known as) up for grabs locally (I'm based in Buxton, Derbyshire the car is stored near Matlock), I'd love to hear from you.

I've also pretty much decided on the power plant and gearbox for her - I just need to find a scrap LDV pilot van of the correct era to liberate the bits from.

I'm not usually much cop at working to deadlines, but my mission is to get her back on the road before it gets too cold to want to hang around outside at work working on her.
kevin s
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by kevin s »

hope you the damage is not to bad, if you had gone for it the Ford engine comes attached to a type 9 box in a sierra (the 1.8 is basically a re-worked kent petrol engine)and there was a also a turbo version (90hp springs to mind but I could well be wrong)

kevin
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by Daddybear1984 »

blimey! an unfortunate mishap i hope the damage is minor and all is rectifiable

kind regards

Scott

When you're in up over your head, the first thing to do is close your mouth.
JPX877J
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by JPX877J »

1970 2 doors are the boss ;) Got mine for £205 in '06
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

Well, having got the bonnet, grill panel and wings off, things aren't looking too bad underneath. The front of the inner wings are a bit crumpled but should either straighten out or be fairly easy to fabricate.
More concerning are some old repairs to the a pillars and outer footwell sides, round some of which it seems the tin worm has been spreading... assuming it will probably need some aspects of the sill repairing, (getting the kickplates off to see the worst is my next mission), is there are better or worse order to tackle these areas (I'm anticipating new metal meeting new metal at least on the bottom of the passenger side A post - the drivers side appears in rather better shape).
kevin s
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by kevin s »

the main thing is to no take ou too much metal at any one time so you don't distort the shell.

On mine I have started with the sill area and then plan to work up up from there, this seems to be the way most people work idealy leave the door on while you do the sill (if you take the whole sill off brace the gap) so you can keep checking alignement, once the sill is done you can then take the door off and do the A pillar/ inner wing, whatever it looks like you probably need to pull off the A pillar cover in the wheelarch, behind mine the inner wing and A pillar were only attached by a couple of tack welds and getting this right is critical to geting the doors to hang properly.

Kevin
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

Some more pictures of the motor as it comes to bits. Some rot, but I think it's better than average...

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I think I might just need a better bonnet!

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Usual hole (so I'm told) where someone has welded a patch round the captive bolt...

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Sills seem remarkably good - only the outer sill needs replacing, the inner and boxing plate seem sound! Next mission is to get the drivers side kickplate off...
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

Finally found a few hours to get some more done.

Old 1098 + box on the floor:
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Large hole awaiting a new occupant.
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Inside of the chassis rails has clearly been liberally waxoled at some point, and they seem in very good condition (whole car is plastered in waxol - I'm a bit concerned that when I start welding the whole thing will go up in smoke).


Spotted this little dealership badge on the passenger door. I don't think this car has ever worked hard - the clock says 36,235 miles, and I reckon that it's never been round, based on the state of stuff like the interior trim. It's been off the road since 1996, and I don't think it did many miles for some years before that.
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I've bought panels to replace most of the "crane dropping incident" damage. So far the bill is up to £11, and all I need now is a decent passenger front wing.

I'm also trying to sort out an LDV van as an engine donor - I can see this part of the deal is likely to easily cost me as much as the minor did originally. Still, I expect the fuel saving will probably give me the money back in two or three months once she is on the road (I'm intending to use her as a daily driver in place of my 1972 Landrover - which has done nearly 4000 miles since the beginning of may, and is drinking me out of house and home)
Image
Matt
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by Matt »

Yes the ford 1.8 is available in 70(turbo) and 90(Turbo intercooled) flavours, but with a little tweaking can get more.

And yes, they do bolt straight up to a type 9 (even the FWD ones) with any old RWD bellhousing (except V6).

And if you are definately after an LDV engine you could try asking on the LDV forum?
Serial Morris Minor Owner and Old Vehicle Nutter
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estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

A new engine bay occupant has been procured - 1.9 turbo from a rusty and slightly crash damaged 1993 Pug 405. 117K miles and well looked after, so should last well in the minor.

Image

I still need to organize a gearbox - a possible donor van has been identified... oh, and get on and weld the car up (I've been busy crewing an 1875 ploughing engine at steam rallys for the last few weekends, so not much has happened to the minor.)
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

It's finally gone into the workshop for further assessment.

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Removing the trim panels revealed some rather nasty repairs to the dreaded rear arch mounting lip

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And daylight can be seen through the rear inner wing on the LH side...

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On the plus side, the LH outer wing that came with the car is clearly brand new - I savaged it with a wire brush in a grinder to get rid of all the filler (the back end of the motor had badly applied filler everywhere), and slapped a crude coat of primer over it to stop it all rusting.

Looking into my crystal ball, I can see a large order of panels coming up as soon as I get paid (next week) - any recommendations as to where to buy? To do the LH side, I'm thinking of ordering the rear half of the inner wing, both the flanged lips for mounting the outer wings, various bits of still panel, and both bits for the B post - that lot should keep me amused for a couple of weekends...
estwdjhn
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Re: 1970 2 door project - VBE 264J

Post by estwdjhn »

Well, did a bit more work before it got carted outside again - mainly getting the other rear wing off to find loads of filler etc.
I'm now kind of getting used to this!

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This wing appears not to be the car's original, but a decent second hand one. I wire brushed the worst of the filler and paint off and gave it a holding coat of red oxide.

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Someone has done a fairly decent job of welding up the inner wing - I'm inclined to leave it well alone. The mounting flange for the outer wing however is going to have to be repaired again - properly..

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Back off to the cold wet world outside I'm afraid...

I've just ordered what I'm hoping are enough panels to repair the passenger side - I had a play at repairing the inner wing area but have ordered the rear section, also a door pillar assembly, a LH wing flange repair section, the bottom of the body side behind the door, and an outer sill. More fun will doubtless be had when these items arrive...
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