issues reconnecting eyebolt fulcrum pin

[simmitc]

The torsion bar does not touch the eye bolt, nor fit inside the cup on the fulcrum pin. The torsion bar sits inside the rear half of the suspension arm, on the splines. The cup on the fulcrum pin then locates inside the front of the rear half of the arm. Do you have a manual or a parts list from one of the Traders? The pictures and drawings do make it quite clear how it all goes together. Can you remember what it was like when you took it apart, did you take any pictures? You could always have a look at the other side. You cannot slide the torsion bar forwards as it is bolted to the cross member. Generally speaking I would expect the end of the torsion bar to be close to the cup on the fulcrum pin (with new bushes). Bearing in mind how safety critical suspension is, I am getting a little concerned; and wonder (a) have followed the correct procedure from the manual; (b) Is the chassis leg definitely sound? (c) Have you asked in your local branch whether anyone could have a look and offer some guidance? Failing all of that, a couple more pictures may help. he very first time I did this job was when a chassis leg completely collapsed. i followed the Haynes instructions word for word, it the job was really very simple.

[oddbod]

YIPEEEE.... I think the problems have been solved,or at least better understood. After a visit by 2 retired engineers,some beer loads of cups of tea, and reassurance that " no you cant break it, hit it hard" and " just put a long lever on that spanner,then the nut will move" I understand rather more about how Torsion Bars are fitted to the venerable Moggie Thou. The " cup" on the Eye Bolt only requires said Tbar to be just inside itself, as the nut that captures the Fulcrum Pin is also housed in this cup,not something I could glean from either the Workshop Manual or Haynes. The Eye Bolt was missing a large washer, thank you MarkyB for that sanity saving tip,which accounted for why I assumed I'd broken the Chassis when said Eye Bolt no longer ran parallel to the Chassis in any dimension.After removing eyebolt and cleaning a sticky bit of underseal either side of the hole, the chassis seems sound. I have bust the Fulcrum Pin threads though,and the front eyebolt Bushes so shall replace these at the earliest opportunity,lashings of copperslip grease and Ginger Beer all round I think,thanks for the support in my stress, I'm sure I'll have more to come,but I do now feel more confident taking apart the suspension, though I fear putting it all back together may prove another learning steep learning curve!!

[oddbod]

The torsion bar does not touch the eye bolt, nor fit inside the cup on the fulcrum pin. The torsion bar sits inside the rear half of the suspension arm, on the splines. The cup on the fulcrum pin then locates inside the front of the rear half of the arm. Do you have a manual or a parts list from one of the Traders? The pictures and drawings do make it quite clear how it all goes together. Can you remember what it was like when you took it apart, did you take any pictures? You could always have a look at the other side. You cannot slide the torsion bar forwards as it is bolted to the cross member. Generally speaking I would expect the end of the torsion bar to be close to the cup on the fulcrum pin (with new bushes). Bearing in mind how safety critical suspension is, I am getting a little concerned; and wonder (a) have followed the correct procedure from the manual; (b) Is the chassis leg definitely sound? (c) Have you asked in your local branch whether anyone could have a look and offer some guidance? Failing all of that, a couple more pictures may help. he very first time I did this job was when a chassis leg completely collapsed. i followed the Haynes instructions word for word, it the job was really very simple.

Thanks for your input, I was trying to "stretch" the Torsion bar too far,as I assumed it WOULD sit inside the eyebolt housing as otherwise it would be "Free Floating" at that end.It wasn't until everything was off that I saw the front end of the Torsion Bar is Reamed to accept the end of the Fulcrum Pin (or maybe I've still not quite sussed it?) so the Torsion Bar doesn't actually enter the Eye Bolt? I didn't take any pictures as I didn't expect the Torsion bar to be freehanging when I released the rear splined arm. I have both a Haynes and Workshop manual,but as both only have exploded diagrams I didn't have a reference point to work from and was afraid if I took off the rear splined arm on the other side I may well end up with 2 Torsion Bars that wern't fitting together. I just want to check: The Torsion Bar splines do not enter the Eyebolt cup,they just sit inside the rear suspension arm that then "hangs" outside the eyebolt? I was under the impression that the Torsion bar was tight up against the Fulcrum Pin retaining bolt,therefore JUST inside the eyebolt cup,i dont know if i've explained that very well.

[MarkyB]

Good result, especially not finding any horrors under all that gloop.
Judicious use of force is OK on most suspension parts as you have discovered, threads are quite easily damaged too .
Eye bolt bushes count as consumable items on a Minor unless you replace them with plastic ones or Metalastic bushes.

[oddbod]

Cheers Marky, I am a)relieved there doesn't seem to be any structural damage and b) pleased that I managed to get this far without scarring myself physically or mentally.Whats your view on what the reamed hole on the end of the Torsion Bar is for?

[bmcecosse]

The MOSS diagram shows how it all fits together. Fit polyurethane bushes (easy)- or a bonded rubber bush (more difficult) in the eyebolt - either sharpens up the suspension nicely. But why are you raising it? Reversing a previous (unwise!) lowering - or has the suspension sagged due to problems at the crossmember end??? http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewP ... exID=17091

[oddbod]

Hi BMC, yep the car was "lowered" all round which was OK for the single guy who had it before me,but as I have 4 teenage sons,none of whom are small, and 2 of them learning to drive the poor Moggie wasn't happy with 3 or 4 adults inside. One Bumpstop is missing at the front and was causing the "banging" noise at the front passenger side,which I have been trying to fix by readjusting the exhaust, as the top trunnion was hitting the inner wing and has broken a previously welded patch. New Eyebolt bushes on the way,as well as a new pin that goes through it,together with a new pair of front bump stops,the drivers side one had been cut down,some welding and a lot of copperslip and lashings of grease and hopefully the MOT will be passed next month. I have realised that as long as the Torsion Bar is tight to the cross member at the rear then wherever it sits at the front end is correct.The Torsion bar on the passenger side came off easily,but the drivers side one is very stubborn and I have applied many Patent Medicines to it,along with some Snake Oil and a bit of Home Brew Slippery concoction of Paraffin and Diesel so I hope the next time I address the Rear Suspension arm with a 2lb hammer and Bolster it will give in and " slide along its splines " without too much of a struggle. Do you reckon the reamed hole in the forward end of the Torsion Bar is for holding the bar when turned on manufacture,or does it serve some other purpose? Thanks I'm fitting new rubber bushes at the minute,but I will probably spend more time (and money) on the front Kingpins/Trunnions/Steering/Suspension after its got an MOT (and I've sorted out my garage,and cut the hedges,mowed the grass,repainted the front porch)I have a workshop manual,but the exploded diagrams are just that, and not being from an engineering background dont always make perfect sense when I read them.I know a bit more about how Torsion bars fit together now though,and the nice man at BM checked that I had all the bits I needed so I don't get a delivery missing that all important "dealer only" gizmo.He also kindly told me that I didn't need their nuts and washers, I could source my own from my local supplier.I feel confident about putting the suspension back together now ( I probably wont when I'm doing it though!)

[bmcecosse]

You seem to be going the right way - the MOSS diagrams are very clear and always worth looking at when doing any work. Top tip - drain the dampers and refill with SAE 30 (or 40) oil.

[oddbod]

Yep, I shall change the Oil in the Dampers!!

[oddbod]

Just a quick tip what I learned with a recalcitrant rear,splined,suspension arm. The scenario,one side came off "easily" the next side I had girded my loins and wiped down my trusty 2lb persuader, when to my surprise it wouldn't "slide along the splined Torsion Bar" as suggested in my manuals. After much thought,WD40,magic mix of parrafin engine oil and a little thinners,application of heat was the decided course of action,as I only have a portable plumbing torch I wasn't convinced of the outcome. Indeed no change in the position of said arm. However in my various,long winter evenings of random surfing,I came across a curious tip,apply heat to one side of the joint and when it has warmed well,apply a wax candle to the cooler side of the joint.The theory being,that though cooler,the unheated side is sufficiently warm to melt the candle,and capillary action (if I remember correctly) draws the melted wax towards the hotter side of the union,as it wants to get hotter and evaporate and blow me down,2 testers with favoured striking implement..... MOVEMENT. Thanks to whoever figured this out,it wasn't me, its a brilliant,elegant solution to what I feel will be a recurring problem on older vehicles. Anyone got any tips on taking the nut of the cup end off the Eyebolt Fulcrum Pin now its off and visible?

[bmcecosse]

Well done - good tip. Don't take the nut off - turn the eyebolt 90 degrees and then slide the complete pin/cup/nut out for attention or scrapping!