Bare metal protection

Post by **Willie** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:00 pm

Thanks Cam, If it wasn't mine I'd have to buy it!!
\Willie

Post by **Willie** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:15 pm

Cam, I know nothing about air powered tools I am afraid so cannot
help re lubrication requirements. i don't think you will get any oil
from either system introduced into the paint, would be certain to ruin
the finish. I believe that I forgot to mention in painting proceedures
that it is important to allow the primer/undercoats to dry THOROUGHLY.
Failure to do this can result in an unsightly crazing of the top coats about
a week after you finished spraying! And, never be tempted to think
that you can get rid of underlying ridges/ripples etc by applying a few
extra coats of the gloss finish......it doesn't work. Preparationis every-
thing. And,if you get a 'run' LEAVE IT. It will be much smaller when
it dries and easy to polish out later
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:17 pm

Thanks Willie,

It sounds very similar to the techniques I have been using with aerosols, although the finish from the proper gun should be far superior.

How long do you usually leave the coats to dry before applying a further coat?

Post by **LCV Charlie** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:26 am

Cam re oil free compressors,
They are good for spraying as there is no chance of oil carry over from the compressor pump. They can sometimes run hot which will in turn produce water in the reciever (air tank ). It is a good habit to get into to drain out the water every time you use it. A common problem is that the drain holes at the bottom of the reciever are quite small and after a number of years they clog up. (do not attempt to clear blockage while you still have air in the receiver, drain all of the air out first and switch it off!!)
For spraying it is a good idea to have a filter regulator so that the filter will take out water vapour and any rust / dirt from the receiver. Also this can give you a choice of different pressures you may need.
Moving onto air tools you can buy in line oilers which you fit on a push in coupling after the air filter/reg the good ones will allow you to adjust how much oil you push through the pipe line. The trick here is to keep the spray gun airline (which you dont use the oiler) just for the spray gun and nothing else. Once you get oil
into a air line it will take a long long time to clear it.
Another tip is if you are going to buy a compressor is to match up your air tools air demand, (same goes for your spray gun) to what the compressor can produce. Measured in CFM. (cubic feet per minute)
Also as Willie says it is best to have a reasonable size reciever so you dont have to wait for the compressor to catch up !!.
beware as some compressor manufactures
sell there compressors on the cubic feet per minute that the pistons displace and not the CFM constant pressure they are capable of maintaining.
My compressor is one that I made up from an old wagon air pump so it is not oil free but for my amature use it is fine.
Hope this helps.

Charlie.........................

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:00 pm

Well Willie you car looks great and I can only see one problem with it, and that is the Green car parked over the road, but I suppose there is no accounting for taste.

Post by **Cam** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:12 pm

Charlie,

Thanks for the info mate, but I have a couple of further questions:

For spraying it is a good idea to have a filter regulator so that the filter will take out water vapour and any rust / dirt from the receiver.

Like this one? for £18 from Machine Mart.

Presumably this filter will also take out any oil in the air?? so if I had one of these, I don't suppose it matters whether I buy an oil, or oil-free compressor?

you can buy in line oilers which you fit on a push in coupling after the air filter/reg the good ones will allow you to adjust how much oil you push through the pipe line.

Like this one? for £17 from Machine Mart.

Although they do individual units which screw onto the tools themselves for about a fiver, but they are probably not up to much.

With regard to spray guns, what sort of price range am I best looking at. Obviously I won't be buying a £250 one, but a £15 one seems a bit too cheap.

I was thinking of maybe one of the Clarke pro range for about £30

What do you think??

Post by **Willie** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:03 pm

Thanks Kevin re pic. re the VW, you have to respect any car which has survived for forty years! (does rather spoil the pic though it's
better if you squint).
Willie

Post by **moggyman999** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:38 pm

Cam just out of curiosity, this moggy uve got, its not black is it & came from calne near swindon?

Lee

Post by **Cam** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 6:06 pm

Lee, no it's mist green and came from Liverpool.

What's the deal with the black one? just out of interest?

Post by **LCV Charlie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:17 am

Cam;
The filter /reg that I would use is similar to the picture of the oiler that you posted. (See Below)
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.as ... 2015&g=103

The picture on their site shows you both the filter reg and oiler together.
(Unfortunatly the price is only for the filter reg)

The filter reg that you show I have no experiance of apart from In my old job I have had to change the screw type connections for people who have complained about them leaking air after a short period of time.

The set up I would do is to run an airline from the compressor to a wall close at hand at where you use your air. Mount the filter reg on the wall,
Put a tee between the filter reg and the oiler. Put a PCL fitting in the tee and one in the other side of the oiler. So that when using air tools plug in to the oiler side of the set up.And when spraying plug into the tee so your air is still filtered and regulated but is free from oil for the air tools.
(A PCL fitting is a push together coupling fit one into the tee and one into the other side of the oiler) The PCL hose tails then fit into the air hose that leads to the spray gun or the air tools. (Make sure that you get the right size for your hose)

To help with any water problems have the airline that feeds from the compressor to the filter reg higher at the filter reg end, water always runs down hill!......

You asked about oil free compressors, I have worked on both oil free and normal compressors. Most dentists use oil free these days but not all.
(I bet next visit to the dentist will have you wondering when he last checked his filters?!!!!!....)

Unless you have the money to spend freely I think the extra price for something that is not going to be used every day it is not worth it.
I have not had a problem with oil coming from the compressor. I have seen it before but that was due to a customer filling up the compressor pump till he couldnt get any more oil in it!!!.

As for the spray gun that you show I dont know. I dont have enough knowledge of spraying to advise you. I do have one that is very similar
and it works well for me.
One thing I do know is that after using it. It is imperative that it is stripped down (nozzle wise) and given a good clean.

One final thing is that for air hose I would steer clear of the cheap nylon recoil hoses. One kink and it will either restict the air flow or break alltogether. The polypropelene ones are more expensive but are good and can take more rough handling.
Hope this answers your questions.

Charlie..........................

Post by **Cam** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:37 am

Thanks for the wealth of info, Charlie it has been very useful.

Having looked at the various tools / accessories that I can see me using over the next few years, it seems that a 7 or 8 CFM, 8 BAR compressor will do the job nicely.

The only thing is that I'm unsure whether a gritblast gun:

or a Spotblast gun:

Would be better for de-rusting. The gritblast gun needs 8 CFM, whereas the spotblast gun needs 6 CFM and they are the same price.

So, with regard to the compressor, I have narrowed it down to the following four models by Clarke:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=000110910
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=000112045
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=000112046
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=000110925

I think I might go for the Panther 25, as it has 8.2 CFM, whereas all the others have 7.

But it is cheaper than the Ranger 30, and better spec'd, which is a bit confusing?? am I missing something?

Opinions gratefully received!

Post by **moggyman999** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 6:31 pm

Cam

Yeah, it was just one of the rare 1952 cheesegrater grill MMs, 2dr in black. Chassis was restored but everything else needed doing. Went for £400 on ebay, but it was near me so i went to see it. Too much for me to deal with!

Post by **Cam** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:13 pm

Sounds like mine! - except black!

1952 cheesegrater grill MM 2dr

Unfortunately, mine has not had the chassis restored, but all the panels are in really good nick (well most of them anyway!)

Post by **Daddsie** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:22 am

I am a decorator and not a vehicle refinisher, but have dabbled in coach painting.

I agree that the largest cfm for psi with a single phase is the best option as some of the sanders etc certainly need 12 cfm with 90 psi.

As for protection, steel needs , water and oxygen to create the catylist for oxidation, starve it of one of these and you are home and dry.

Clean off the rust, Jenolite, hammerite and waxoil. For external panels, bright metal, preferably with a hot air fan blowing away at your shoulder and prime with zinc phosphate. Apply undercoats etc asap as primer is porous.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:21 pm

Hi Cam,

But it is cheaper than the Ranger 30, and better spec'd, which is a bit confusing?? am I missing something?

Kind of...
The Ranger 30A is cheaper (as you would expect as it is less powerful). It also has a different package size (bigger) so is marginally less desirable - these things take up valuable garage space and are not the easiest things to stick in a boot!
The ranger 30 is more expensive, but has an output regulator and a dual guage which none of the others had.

-->A question for those who know more about spraying than me(everyone) -->
Is a 2hp (8CFM) compressor without a tank going to be any use for spraying? eg a wing or even a car?
I read the comments about needing a receiver but I would be stuck for space as the mig welder fills the cupboard under the stairs already.
Without a receiver it saves a huge amount of space and I would be able to stick it in a cupboard indoors rather than risk leaving it in the garage but as I know nothing about spray equipment yet, would it be a bad investment??
eg:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... tegory=632
or could it be good enough to spray a wing etc..? as I am more likely to do that than to spray a complete car.

Post by **Cam** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 11:29 pm

Thanks Ray, I had missed the output regulator, when I compared the Panther 25 and the Ranger 30.

From what I can make out, the receiver-less compressors are not worth a shout, and even the small 6-litre types are a bit poor.

Don't forget, that once you have a compressor, the chances are you are going to use it for other things (tools, etc) so you want a fairly good one to start off with - which is why I started asking the questions.

Obviously we are only guessing as we have no practical experience of compressors, but I think it makes sense to get one that will last you a bit and perform a variety of tasks to earn it's keep.

With regard to the placement of such items, I plan to keep mine in the garage alongside my MIG welder. I always remove the wire from it before storing it, but apart from that is there any reason why I should not be storing either the compressor or welder in the garage??

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:18 am

I have a wooden garage on a rear access road, so it WILL get broken into. (last time was 2 years ago, and 4 years before that)
Therefore I keep nothing in there that I can live without.

If you've got a decent 'safe' garage, with lots of locks don't worry!

I'm still tempted on the compressor - I may add a stand alone receiver in the garage.. hmm have to think on that one.

Thanks.

Post by **Cam** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:35 am

Ray,

Ahhh.... I see, it's a theft issue! I was thinking it might be a corrosion / damp thing. I understand your point now.

My garage is a '60s concrete slabs with a corrugated asbestos roof type. It does have a steel up and over door which has bolts and a padlock, but the advantage is that I park my Rover outside the door at night thus blocking entry. But if they wanted to get in that badly I suppose they could, although it's such a mess inside that it would probably confuse them!!

Anyway, back to compressors:

That one on eBay does look like a bargain, as Machine Mart list a 0.5 HP one for £105 and a 1.5 HP one for £129 (both receiverless), so a 2 HP for £57 seems well worth it!!

Like you say, if you wanted to you could add a receiver at a later date.

The machine comes with a spray gun, so it's certainly capable of spraying to smoe degree!!

Go for it then Ray, but be quick as I think there was only 1 left out of 5 when I last looked.

By the way I just noticed that on my previous post, I put the word 'c r a p' in. (spaced out, so it does not get changed)

and it got changed to 'crap'. so I edited it to say 'poor' instead.

I did not think that that was a bad word!?! they must have the 'baby' filter on, which makes sense when a bunch of blokes (mainly) are talking about cars?!?!?

I know that this site is a family site, and I am not one to swear normally, and certainly not in front of ladies or in polite company, but come on!! If the youngsters can't stand the word c r a p then they should not be let out without their nanny, and they should definately not be allowed access to the internet!!!

Any conflicting views, please feel free!!

Post by **Willie** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:56 am

RAY re your query about 2.h.p. sprayer without a receiver.
I sprayed my first car with a very small receiverless type and
it was dreadful. You could more or less see it coming out in
puffs and it blocked up repeatedly which is infuriating half way
through a panel. In the end,the only way I could get a good finish
was to apply far more coats than normal and then rub most of them
off! The extra cost of the paint would have been better put towards
a good rig.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:34 pm

I've decided not to rush into it - thanks for the advice, I'll mull it over some more.