No charge and wiring

[sudburypaul]

Hi there

Firstly apologies for my inadequate description below - I am not au fait with the dark arts of automotive electrics, even on a Minor!
My 1956 S11 split screen doesn't appear to be charging as the ignition light stays on. I have checked the dynamo and it seems to be generating about 15v. However before I moved onto the regulator I noticed that the main wiring loom in the engine bay has what appears to be have been some sort of junction box where 3 wires are joined together at their bullet connectors. Whatever this was it is now just a sticky ball of tar-like gloop. I have seperated out the 3 wires and cleaned them up. I don't know how long this has been like this and whether it is possibly causing a short, which I need to sort before I test the regulator. None of these wires appear to be directly connected to the charging system as they seem to come from the regulator and go into the underside of the dashboard. Could there be a linkage between the ignition light staying on and this discovery?
So here are my questions:
Firstly, is there a junction between the regulator and the dash where 3 wires are in contact with each other? (The Haynes wiring diagram doesn't seem to indicate this)
Secondly if they are seperated from each other does this make a difference to any circuitry? (they are all independent of each other now they are de-glooped)
Thirdly, is there something that could cause the melt-down of this connector that I need to address? (it is the original loom so the material was 55 yrs old I suspect)

I intend soon to convert to an alternator and want to get this right before I do that, so any advice is welcome.

Best regards, Paul

[sudburypaul]

Follow-up to my questions...

Went out and tried again and all seems suddenly well! Battery is slightly weak, charging at about 10 volts. I'll charge it up tomorrow and see if that improves its charge rate, but ignition light stays out at idle. Perhaps the gloopy mess was causing a short, so will now insulate all the connections seperately.

Still going to go for the alternator conversion though.

Apologies for what now seems a somewhat unneccesary post!

Paul

[beero]

What colour are the wires? That would give a clue to what they are connected to. Or a photo helps.

[mike.perry]

An alternator would look completely out of place on a Series 2 and totally unnecessary unless you are running a heated rear screen and everything else on full power. My series MM manages well on a C39 dynamo with main beam, two spots and the heater on

[sudburypaul]

Hi Mike

No disagreement with you on the originality being compromised - it is an 803 engined model and I have no plans to transplant a bigger engine in as want to keep it as original as possible. However, the car is really my soon-to-be-18 daughter's, and as we live out in the country I want to try and make it as reliable as I can without it losing its character - I also don't want to have a phone call in the early hours of the morning in the middle of winter saying 'the car's dead, can you come and help'! She will be using it for quite a few short journeys too, so it would be good if the battery can be more quickly recharged than the dynamo is capable of. There's also the issue of a desire for a radio/cd player to be fitted... It can always be returned back to its original state later, and I have drawn the line at the idea of it being decorated with daisy transfers along its flanks...

Paul

[bmcecosse]

'Charging at 10 volts' - is obviously NOT correct. In fact - I suspect it was DISCHARGING at 10 volts........... The problem would seem to be in the Regulator - first step is to clean the contacts. Second step is to try another Regulator. How do you KNOW the dynamo is capable of 15 volts ??

[sudburypaul]

I tested the dynamo with a multimeter - 15 volts on the button. My mechanic neighbour checked the battery at idle, though my meter is analogue, so we will retest with digital to be sure - but it was registering 10 volts with my meter. I ran the car for about 10 minutes at idle without any ignition light coming on. This has always previously been a bit unusual.
The regulator is new. It may need some adjustment, but I will retest the battery once it is fully charged to see if it raises it to 12v at idle. The battery was low after a number of starts and running with no charge. If it is still a prob I will investigate the regulator.
Just learning as I go along...
Cheers, Paul

[bmcecosse]

The battery will be at least 12 volts (with NO charge) - and should rise to 13.8/14 volts when charging at decent revs. You haven't by any chance changed the car polarity ?????? Why did you change the regulator?

[sudburypaul]

That's helpful, thanks. The battery was quite flat so is currently charging. No, haven't changed polarity, it is still + earth. The regulator was changed as part of a charging problem before I took ownership - the previous owner was a classic car restorer by trade and fettled it back to the road after about 20 years storage. New dynamo, new regulator fitted Jan of this year, but the battery is not new.

[bmcecosse]

So - has it always been like this in your ownership - or has this just suddenly happened? Charging with a dynamo is a very simple thing - join both dynamo terminals together and attach a single thickish wire - start the engine - hold revs at ~ 1000 and connect that single wire to the non-earth terminal of the battery. Now measure the battery voltage - it should be charging at a good high rate, and sitting up at maybe more than 14 volts. If it is - then the dynamo is fine ! You therefore need to turn attention to the regulator. If the volts are only ~ 12, then the dynamo is not good - and will need fixing...... And -be sure to disconnect that wire before stopping the engine !

[sudburypaul]

Have now fitted an alternator.

Fitting was easy enough, but some points for others thinking of this to be aware of:

Ist startingfollowing fitting and reversing polarity to - earth: No reading on fuel gauge and no ticking from pump. Engine soon died through fuel starvation: Realised I needed to reverse polarity from + to neg earth on the petrol pump too. Result, ticking pump and gauge reading well.

However, no power to wipers. Eventually realised that when removing old wiring from D and E on the regulator this included seperating the 2 wires which connect to the box and thus create a contact to power and earth the wiper motor. Solution: bullet connectors to the two wires and join together. Result, wipers working well.

Overall the alternator seems to have made a good difference. Wipers are more assertive and quicker, indicators working more instantly and ignition light goes out immediately on starting and stays out at idle. All the dynamo wiring is left in place in the loom for a conversion back if returning to original spec becomes important.

Overall I 'm happy with this and have learned a lot in the process of diagnosing the problems - it is not quite as simple as the Bull Motif fitting guide suggests (which seems more designed for later key-start ignitions rather than the earlier series 2's pull starts) as all the wires on my car are now all pretty much a dirty brown..., though I guess they are specifically designed to fit and operate the alternator rather than deal with other faults that need to be worked through as a result. The BM kit itself seems a nice piece of work though. Very pleased with myself

[bmcecosse]

Well done. You must have an 'electronic' fuel pump if you had to reverse the polarity ! You should swap the connections over on the coil too - it works both ways, but rather better if wired correctly.

[sudburypaul]

Yes I did swap the coil leads over too. The fuel pump is a completely enclosed 'black box' contraption, very different to the metal types I have been used to on my previous Minors, so I suspect it must be electronic. I did wonder if it was actually sucking fuel out of the carb before I reversed its polarity. Would it do that?

Cheers, Paul

[MarkyB]

No it wouldn't, there is an air gap once the petrol is in the carb.