Identifying brakes

[Birchall]

HI,

Please can anyone tell me which brakes I have on my 53 series 2.

I was told that if it has wheel bolts instead of wheel nuts, then it is the "early alloy" brakes
But these look like steel?

Can anyone please identify the from the photos?

Thanks
Steve B
[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Early 7" brakes right enough - but certainly not 'alloy'! Were they ever?

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

You wont know for sure until the drums off as you can fit the newer backing plate on and use later cylinders, but I think judging from the unions on the back it will be the early and more expensive ones.

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 35f4a3ed2a

[Birchall]

You wont know for sure until the drums off as you can fit the newer backing plate on and use later cylinders, but I think judging from the unions on the back it will be the early and more expensive ones.

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 35f4a3ed2a

My 1960 4 door minor is ion having a disc brake conversion at the moment, I don't suppose that I could fit those (later) ones on mine?

but if they fit, they will be a different PCD I think?

Steve B

[bmcecosse]

These look like 4.5" PCD - so yes, later brakes will be 4".

[Birchall]

Early 7" brakes right enough - but certainly not 'alloy'! Were they ever?

Hi,

It looks like the alloy is referring to the brake cylinders, it was probably just me getting mixed up and thinking that it was the drums that were alloy.

So it looks like it is the expensive option!

Thanks for the help.

Steve B

[bmcecosse]

All brake cylinders are 'alloy' as far as I know......

[Birchall]

All brake cylinders are 'alloy' as far as I know......

I am pretty sure that most are steel, I believe it was only the early ones (53 and earlier) that were alloy.

But I may be wrong

Steve b

[mike.perry]

As has been said, the pictured drum is the Series MM/early Series 2 type with wheel bolts, integral bearings and 4.5 in PCD. If you still have the correct drums then the bolt thread should be 7/16 UNF (20 TPI) and hopefully with 3/8 Whit bolt heads, earlier heads were 5/8 A/F which wore the bolt holes in the wheels. The original swivel pins should not have the blank circular boss above the steering arm as on the M1000 swivels. Front wheel cylinders are different to and more expensive than M1000 cylinders but the back plate assembly from the 948 can be substituted
There is a technical description and instructions for changing to M1000 swivel pins on http://seriesmm.mmoc.org.uk Tech Info

[bmcecosse]

It's a while since I did Metallurgy - but last time I looked I'm pretty sure 'steel' was an alloy....

[mike.perry]

The Series MM wheel cylinders pistons do suffer from getting stuck due to the alloys used (without getting technical), especially if not used regularly so it is important to visually check them regularly. There are companies which insert steel sleeves in the bores which is supposed to cure the problem.

[Birchall]

I bought new swivel pins but I have just realised that they will not suit the early brakes.

But I have a set of front brake assemblies from a 1960 saloon and so I might as well fit these and the new pins.
I will have to get new wheels though because of the smaller PCD. That will probably be the best option. (not going for concours)

Steve B

[mike.perry]

That will be the worst option, you will have different PCDs front and rear and you will need two spares. Read the website or fit the backplate assembly from a 948.

[Birchall]

That will be the worst option, you will have different PCDs front and rear and you will need two spares. Read the website or fit the backplate assembly from a 948.

Hi,
Yes you are correct of course, I had planned to fit the later rear axle too, but I will check that post you mention first.

I would not leave it with two different PCDs but I want to use the new swivel pins I have and lose the smaller and more costly early brakes.

Cheers
Steve B

[mike.perry]

In the 34 years that I have been running my Series MM I doubt if I have had to buy four front wheel cylinders, besides, Bull Motif were selling them for not much more than M1000 cylinders.
So you are going to change what may well be four perfecly good cylinders?

[Dean]

If the threads aren't worn I'd keep the original swivel pins... if they are worn club spares re-thread them for £60 and that includes a new undersize trunnion and postage (as of 2010). I fitted the later backing plate, as mentioned there is a kit from Bull Motif, cost about £100 (I think).

[Birchall]

In the 34 years that I have been running my Series MM I doubt if I have had to buy four front wheel cylinders, besides, Bull Motif were selling them for not much more than M1000 cylinders.
So you are going to change what may well be four perfecly good cylinders?

HI,

I see what you mean, but I have replaced virtually every other part on the car for new parts, I would not miss out the brakes. The most important parts on the car.
Not only that but I want to improve the brakes a little and so the later larger brakes are not a bad idea, add to this the fact that I have just spent £170 on new swivel pins and trunions (just found out that they are not going to fit my brakes) so all in all, swapping them now seems to not be a bad idea.


I must say that all of this advice is fantastic, it is good to get so many different people helping, it gives me a clear indication of all of the pro's and cons.
Thanks everyone.
Steve B

[mike.perry]

But the whole point is that if you modify the drums as per the Tech. Instr. you will not have wasted £170 on swivels as they will then fit your brake drums

[C6Dave]

It's a while since I did Metallurgy - but last time I looked I'm pretty sure 'steel' was an alloy....

Yes Iron and 'Carbon' = Steel but not a true 'metal alloy' in that it's not 2 metals combined aka brass and copper to make bronze

[bmcecosse]

There are usually a few other metals in the mix (admittedly in low %) ...besides the iron and carbon - so steel IS very much an alloy. But - don't get too excited about it - I'm just yanking your chain....