starting troubles

[timetraveller]

hi all
didnt know wether to put this in mechanical or electrical but here goes anyway

in recent weeks i have had trouble starting my traveller in the mornings
its like a really slow sluggish turning over of the engine much like a flat battery,or the battery just doesnt have enough grunt to turn the engine over
it will start ok when jumped off my wifes car
it has a brand new battery,electronic ignition,multispark coil lead and new plugs fitted within the last couple of weeks in anticipation of the winter months

once the car has started its fine and will start every time on the key
just wont work on the initial first attempt in a morning

any help appreciated
neil

[bmcecosse]

Could be - bad connections/poor starter motor/bad battery (yes - I know it's 'new')/battery not being charged/battery being discharged when engine not running. So - you need to work your way through that lot. Is the fan belt good and tight? Can you confirm the voltage when the engine is running at decent revs? Is there anything that could be discharging the battery (alarm/stereo etc)? Since it starts with a jump - the starter motor seems to be ok - so check the others first! Do you have dynamo or alternator?

[timetraveller]

hi roy
its running a dynamo and the fan belt is fine
when i multimeter the battery it always show 12 volts plus
the only thing hardwired into the battery is the stereo for the radio presets and i cant imagine that using much if any at all as its always switched off when i get out
neil

[bmcecosse]

When the engine is running at decent revs - it should be at 13.8/14 volts. The stereo may just be doing it - try disconnecting it for a couple of days.

[timetraveller]

cheers
ill give it try for the rest of the week
neil

[timetraveller]

hi
ok ive given it a while but its still going flat
when i multimeter test it when the engine is running it reads 12.9v but never seems to go over that mark
still not enough grunt to start in a morning,this mornings multimeter reading being 11.8v
still having to be jump started and the wife hates me(wasting her time)
i dont think the battery is being charged
??
does the generator trickle charge the battery to top it up
i need some ammo before i take the battery back for a refund

thanks
neil

[beero]

You need to prove if it is the battery, the lack of charge, or both. Have you charged the battery overnight? Try this and if it is still sluggish then the battery could be at fault. If the battery is fine after a good charge you need to look at why your car is not charging it.
This site may help to set up / adjust your control box (regulator)
http://home.comcast.net/~rhodes/generator.html

[mike.perry]

Have a look at the dynamo brushes before you start on anything else.

[IslipMinor]

Neil,

When you say that it never seems to go over 12.9v, is that with the engine started and running at 2/3,000 rpm, and with no lights or anything else on (radio memory is OK)?

With either dynamo or alternator it should charge at 13.5/14.0v, unless the battery is really fully charged. Even though it jump starts OK, I would check all the connections between the battery and the starter, battery and the body and the earth strap between the gearbox cross-member and the body, just to be sure.

Did you charge it overnight? What was the result? What spec battery are you using? Do you know its Ah (Amp Hour) capacity?

[timetraveller]

hi all
the battery would not hold more than 12.9 volts when charged overnight
this then dropped to 12.7v when i got to work (lights and heater during travel approx 4 miles)
at dinnertime the voltage was 12.5v
at 5 o clock the voltage was 12.3v and the car started ok but not immediately
i thought it was discharging slightly
went straight to the battery shop (again lights and heater during travel) and got them to test it
the voltage was still within the batterys usage parameters but they werent happy with its performance and not 100% sure about the dynamos ability to keep up so they have swapped and upgraded the battery to a 55ah larger capacity jobby
so a result with the battery (free £30 upgrade)
but now im concerned about the dynamo unit not working correctly
these problems seem to stem from when i converted to negative earth......but im sure everything was done correctly
check all connections??
check dynamo brushes??
check and adjust control box??
or just fit an alternator kit.....job done??
neil

[Jefftav]

"these problems seem to stem from when i converted to negative earth......but im sure everything was done correctly "

I could be wrong but I don't think you need to convert the Morris to Neg earth if running a dynamo only if swapping to an alternator?

[MarkyB]

You only "have" to convert it if fitting an alternator or a modern accessory like a radio, CD player etc.

[IslipMinor]

Neil,

When you converted to negative earth, I presume you 'flashed' the dynamo to reverse its charging polarity?

What is the voltage across the battery terminals when the engine is running at 2/3,000 rpm with nothing else switched on? Should be more than the voltage without the engine running - somewhere more than 13v, and more like 13.5-14.0v if the battery is not fully charged. Could be 14v+ with a more discharged battery.

Do you have a ammeter function on your multimeter? If so, turn everything off, as you would overnight, disconnect the positive lead and put the ammeter in series between the positive lead and the battery terminal. Be very careful to connect it the right way round, and do NOT turn anything on, especially the starter!! What current draw are you getting? Should only be a few milliamps to maintain the radio memory - anything more is a problem, and should be identified.

A 55Ah battery should give you some reserve and a noticeable benefit on really cold starts. The CCA (cold cranking amps) will be higher than the standard battery and on a very cold start the starter will use some of the extra current available and convert it into cranking power! Obviously the starter will only take up to its maximum current draw, but I have found that on a really cold start, which virtually stalls the starter so draws more than its usual current, a 'bigger than standard' battery does help.

Other than the radio, have you fitted anything else electrical? Halogen headlights, heated screen, spot lights etc.? If you have, then fitting an alternator might be a good idea, but need to get to the bottom of your current (oops!) problem first.

[timetraveller]

hi
i converted to negative earth as i have a modern cd player fitted and i also fitted a 12v power socket for the odd occasion when i need the sat nav
bog standard everything else,no other gadgets fitted
yes i did 'flash' the dynamo and slowly counted to ten
anyway thanks for all your replies and resolutions
i got a full day in the garage tommorow so i can explore all avenues a bit further
thanks
neil

[PSL184]

It wouldn't be charging at all if the dynamo hadn't had the polarity corrected so first step is to check what charge the battery is getting with lights and heater running. If the meter does not read at least 13.8 volts then you need to look at the charging circuit for reasons why.....

[bmcecosse]

Why on earth did you slowly count to ten .......? You may have burned something out! A 'flash' is just that - a very short 'flash' on the the small terminal of the dynamo ! I suspect you may have damaged some part of the control box....... You don't mention the red IGN light - what's it doing in all this ? And as above - you must get 13.5/14 volts with the engine doing decent revs AND the headlights on!