Are there any plans to redesign the Morris Minor?

[Ondergard]

This might sound off the wall, but if you wanted to keep the "signature" centrally-mounted speedo, is there any reason why it can't be centrally located, but be biased-viewing (or "skewed"!) so that it appears "straight" when viewed from the driving seat?

[Fingolfin]

Hmm. Good point to raise, Ondergard. Considering the costs of designing too many differences between RHD and LHD models, a centrally-mounted instrument cluster might be more cost-effective than that behind the steering wheel. Another argument in favor of centrally-mounted intruments is that it keeps with the original cosmetics -- something that's important to me.

I had figured on placing the instruments behind the wheel because most modern cars are designed so; thus a test-driver is more at ease when first driving the New Minor. This increases safety while the driver learns. But this benefit, over the long term, is negligible.

I'll design a layout. Anyone else is absolutely free to do the same. I have no trademark on my concept.

[Fingolfin]

HaHA! It's been a while. Things intervened while I was getting my design down, and Inkscape is a little harder to use than I remember...but, ahem, anyway: my completed center-dash design!
[frame][/frame]
Ah, came out nice, too. The large gauge is bascially just like the traditional Smith gauge. I picked the earlier one with only three warning lights because that's what my '59 2-door has. The other gauges are, clockwise from left, engine revolutions per minute; amperes and temperature; engine pressure and fuel economy.
The cluster of five lights opposite the RPM gauge are warning lights for the airbags, antilock brakes, driver's seatbelt, handbrake, and open door. There are six lights under all this that indicate current gear.
The row of seven circles along the bottom are pull-buttons, like in the classic Moggie, and they are, left to right: wing mirror adjustment (turn left or right to select mirror); windscreen wiper speed (pull to engage, turn to increase speed); windscreen washer; ignition key; hazard lights; normal lights; and 'function,' which is filled with a button related to options the buyer may purchase. If they buy just the standard New Minor, this pull is gone and the hole is sealed.
Along the very bottom are environment controls (a/c and heat), radio and CD player (and mp3 player dock, extreme bottom), and cigarette lighter.
It is intended to be as plain and clear as possible, and I've tried to keep from cluttering up the dash too much while still indicating as much information as I could manage.
For Britain, the positions of the pull-buttons are flipped; the RPM gauge and warning light cluster are switched; and the other gauges turn metric, i.e. MPG becomes Km/L, temp is in ºC rather than ºF, and KPH becomes dominant over MPH, etc.

For those who wish to retain that classic Morris Minor austerity, there is an optional package that does away with the mirror switch (they become manually adjusted), function switch, gear indicators, the three smaller gauges, and all but the SRS and ABS warning lights, which go into the large center gauge (like in later Mogs). Of course, the stereo is entirely optional too. We may offer a traditional-style heater in the future. For safety, the dash is padded and the gauges are made with laminated glass.

Suggestions? Comments? Criticisms? Complaints?

[Ondergard]

It looks brilliant - but does it incorporate my idea? Could the round gauges be mounted on some kind of fixable gymbal - so that you can choose the angle of the gauge depending on whether it is right- or left-hand drive, or even adjust the angle depending upon your height (sitting down, obviously) and seat position?

[Fingolfin]

I do like that idea, Ondergard, and I'll certainly consider it. The only trouble is (I'm reminded of a mid-'90s Chevrolet Blazer my parents own), if the car goes over bumps, would the gauges shake out of position? If they shook too far, that could be dangerous. (In the Blazer, this happens to the rear-view mirror. )
There would have to be some kind of latch mechanism to hold them in a set position. Of course, if they were fixed on, say, a single-axis gimbal, there'd be at most two attach posts -- making removal and refurbishment/replacement a breeze. Even a double-axis gimbal, to accomodate different driver heights, could use just one post, theoretically.
I just repeated everything you said. Grr.
An interesting idea, as I said, and it may solve another problem: if the gauges are all on gimbals, then I won't need to switch them around based on RHD/LHD -- saving money and driving down the purchase price.
Ondergard, I should hire you. That's what I'd be saying if I had a company with a British subsidiary.

[marcusthemoose]

i may do a few sketches of my own. the problem is that we would all compare the new one in the shadow of the old, and this is't really the way to look at it. the original minor was a revolutinary car when first built, and the new one would have to be too. i'm sorry, but starting with a minor and modernising it is definately the wrong way to go about it, this would encourage to much copying; best to start with a blank sheet of paper, and draw from memory, giving the influence, but leaving the ideas to you.
what about drive? virtually all small cars are front drive with transverse engine.
i'll shut up now, and get to work.

[Fingolfin]

LOL, that's what I did: drew from memory. The New Minor only resembles the Old One superficially. It incorporates modern construction and safety techniques, and very modern tech.

I invite any feedback at all, and I can't wait to see your sketches, Marcus!

[simmitc]

Dashboard - needs full width demisting plus side vents for clearing side windows (plus, of course, quick-clear windscreen). Also, a flat area where it is possible to place "pay and display" car park tickets that these days come without any glue, and parking attendants don't seem to be able to look on seats!

[Fingolfin]

My original, full-dashboard drawing did include the full demisters; you can see their shoulders around the central hump. But I cut out the extremities to focus on the center. Hadn't thought about ones angled at side windows, but that's a great idea. There are also heater vents roughly on the same latitude as the top (smaller) gauges.
I'm not sure where I'd put a flat area like that, as it would interrupt the aesthetic...I could perhaps have, like in the original Minor, a row of holes along the bottom of the dash to attach modifications, like a tray or cupholder. Good ideas!

[MarkyB]

There are probably more things to think about than the aesthetic now as safety plays a much bigger role in car design.
I don't see any switches poking out of modern dashboards, almost everything is controled by stalks behind the steering wheel or controls on it.

[Fingolfin]

I absolutely agree with your sentiment, Marky, but I'm not sure that centralizing every control on the steering column is any safer for a normal-performance car. (I know in Formula 1 racing they have to have every control on the wheel, but the New Minor is nowhere near that fast.)
Did you perhaps mean that the buttons pose a safety hazard because they stick out? Here, too, I must disagree. Many switches and other important things on modern cars (most notably the gear shift... ) stick out, but pose little safety threat unless an occupant is unbelted. Even the tallest driver of the New Minor would have no way to bash his knee against the buttons if he were belted in.
Still...it might be possible to make the buttons so that they crumple on impact. Other modern safety improvements -- padded dash, airbags, etc. -- are already included.

[Fingolfin]

Just a question -- what else are we looking for on designs, and what don't we know? I'd be happy to whip something more up. Of course I'd love to see some of your designs too!
Would you all prefer a different base design for the New Minor? I've read some folks' comments that seem to point away from the traditional old Minor aesthetic -- which is fine!
Just wondering. Thanks to everyone for a wonderful topic! I'm enjoying this a lot!

[Ondergard]

If money were no object, I think what I'd like to see is something which is recognisable - or at least reminiscent - of the old Minor; in much the same way as the BMW version of the Mini and the "new" Beetle would have been recognisable to the time traveller from the 1960's as being successors to the cars they had known (even if ugly and lacking elegance, as some people think), but without having slavishly to copy every part of the old Minor. After all, if designing a car these days, you wouldn't go in for leaf-spring suspension, would you? You wouldn't have seats with no neck support or seatbelts, or whatever... so why not a Morris with twin halogen over-and-under head/foglights, for example?

What I would want, without being too prescriptive, would be to be able to look at the Morris Minor 2015 and see the progression from the old to the new... almost as if we were seeing what the Moggie would have become had it survived the early seventies and gone through five or six iterations inbetween, without actually having seen those iterations come to fruition. It's the imaginative leap which genuinely retains the spirit of the Moggie (and therefore would have to be relatively cheap and durable, I suppose!) which I want to experience... (can I be hired as your British advertising copy-writer, when you build the new Morris Minor 2015?)

As a side issue, I think I would have to say (reluctantly) that all the dimensions would have to be upsized, at least slightly, to accommodate our modern bulk.

And, finally, I would like to see a design (with a similar ethos to the above) for a modern version of the 1953 Morris Oxford MO as a large, family-sized, "companion" car - I always think of the MO as the Morris Major, rightly or wrongly. If I had the money, I'd buy one, restore it, and put a Morris Ital 1800 engine or an MG 1500 engine in it! The only thing I don't like about the MO is it's rather clumsy, ugly front grill!

[dantournay]

hasn't that been done already?

[DanRodd]

There is only one Morris Minor,lets keep it that way

[Fingolfin]

Dan -- I'll agree that the PT Cruiser resembles the Minor vaguely, but it's too far removed to be a proper successor. Second Dan ( ) -- kudos! There will always be only one Morris Minor, just like there can never be a better Volkswagen bug, or Mini. The modern bug and MINI are too far removed, similarly to the Cruiser, from their originals -- and the original Minor, bug, and Mini are just too damn cool to be emulated. Nevertheless, I'm enjoying the experience of (informally) redesigning it!

Keep in mind, also, that the Minor's, shall we say, unique body is strangely low-drag, giving higher mileage. Also, though much less so than the Mini, the interior of the Minor maximizes available space for passengers and cargo. It is my opinion that a body of the same basic shape as the old Minor would be best from most perspectives.

Ondergard -- interesting suggestion on the Oxford. I came across a photo of the side-valve early '50s MO, and boy does it look a lot like the later Minors! Just bigger. More family-sized. An updated uprated Ox might be a great second model for this imaginary company of mine. And, sure, you can be in charge of publicity over all of Europe if you want.

Suspension I hadn't considered. I don't know enough about that to make an informed decision -- someone else? Halogens I loathe, but that may be because American headlight laws are different from British ones, and so I'm not used to them.

A progression would be interesting to see...I'll work on something like that, but without a predefined end-point.

Thanks again, all, for your fabulous input! But keep in mind I'm not the only artiste here -- if you've got an idea, put it on paper, and I'd love to see it!

[new_adventures_of_arthur]

I think MarcusMoose is right in saying that you cant start by modernising a Minor. You have to capture some of its characteristics, in what would be ultimately, a new car otherwise its not a new minor.

It has to be all the things that the Minor was at the height of its popularity (say mid-60's), but the equivalent of that in todays terms.

It would have to be innovative, economical, and appeal to the masses - male and female. And maybe some one should do some consumer research on district nurses to see what they like?

Part of the popularity of the minor was due to its versatility, vehicle range, and affordability. If a new Minor would be as popular, it would have to become popular in the same way. Like an almost first choice for small vans, small cars etc. When you look at the other stuff that the Minor was used for in its day (BT Vans, Post office Vans, plumbers, etc) the type of car filling that void now is the Corsa, or transit connect (the small one).

The "New minor" has been in few guises over the years. I'd probably say the Ford Fiesta of the 80's captures a lot of what the Minor had. It was a small car, there were tons of them made, it was extremely popular, the engine was simple but lasted for ages (think the Ka recently still used the basically same thing - they certainly sounded like the same bag of hammers!!!), easy to maintain, they made them for ages, and speaking from personal experience, I know a lot of people who owned one (a bit like the story of the Minor).

In order for a new Minor to be as popular as the old one, it has to be cheap (not like a new mini). But it has to look good too. The Minor and the mini shared some similarities and the New Mini is probably a good place to look for how a new minor would look (sorry). It just wouldnt come with the premium of being badged by BMW.

...and when it hits a british first for production figures (maybe 100 billion or something) it has to be an appropriate colour.

[MarkyB]

What shade of grey do you hav in mind
Just joking, but there are quite a few.
I think you are spot on about what would be done, if it was ever done.

Any modern car has to have all the safety requirments met plus the things that people expect nowadays like power steering, electric windows etc. also it would have to meet the latest emmisions standard or better if it is to be in production for a while.

I'm afraid it won't happen because the Minor was never a very iconic car like the mini or the beetle or it was iconic in the wrong way.

[Fingolfin]

I guess -- and this is a tad difficult for me to admit -- I guess that's why a New Minor would have to stand on its own four wheels, so to speak, since the old Minor was only really iconic and well-known in Britain and some of the Commonwealth. This is perhaps the best argument I've seen yet for a total departure from old-Minordom.

But let's consider the advances over the past fifty years. In a roundabout manner, we've returned to the early-50s sensibilities: small, fuel-efficient, family-oriented. This has happened all over the world. After the States had its love affair with the Hummer and the SUV and the too-big-to-be-parked-properly pickup, we're returning to littler and better things. So has the basic Minor ideal really disappeared, or is it just in time for renewal?

But then see the late 50s, with the advent of boat-sized station wagons, and then the first muscle cars. So a New Minor maybe should be capable of existing within each of those spheres, if it is to last. Flexibility is key.

I'm working on those designs right now. I'm following decades: a hatchback version for the late 70s, for instance. It's hideous.

Ahaha! I love the hundred-billion color change! Shall we say lilac, or should we go more wild and say rainbow or chartruse or something else?

[new_adventures_of_arthur]

I dont think it would ever happen either - like MarkyB says, it just didnt have the right iconic status needed to make it an attractive business to start up from cold.

Mini still had the iconic status to make it an appealing brand for BMW, and VW/Fiat obviously are still in business which meant a new version of an old car could come along at any time during the continual development of new designs and vehicles.

If Rover were still going, they might have jumped on the bandwagon and released the new Minor, though probably churned out something undeserving of the name "Morris Minor" - or even the term "car" .

Very interested to see what your designs will be though Fingolfin.