slack in the rack

Post by **mrmorrisminor** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:49 pm

Hi all,
Up until now if I've had any steering rack issues I have usually taken the easy option and replaced them with a recon one (although I have had some of dubious quality.....but that's another matter). Any how I am preping my 4 door for its MOT and have found a little play in the nearside end of the steering rack (This side also needed a wheel baring which elimimated some play).
I have swapped the track rod over for a new one with no effect and all other suspension joints are in excellent condition including the damper arm, so I am confident that the play is in the ball socket joint inside the rack. The off side has no play and no slack can be felt through the wheel.

so....... my question is, is there anything I can do about this other than to swap it in for a recon (pennies running short you see!), was wondering if there is any adjustments that can be made by my self or is it a job for the 'professionals'?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:22 pm

But you say you have already swapped the track rod over for a new one ?? Surely when fitting that - you would adjust it up to take out any slack ? It may be that the rack damper needs adjusting - details are in the Manual (with excellent diagram - section J) - but best done with rack off the car. Also wise to use grease in the rack, rather than the oil originally specified.
PM me if you don't have a Manual.

Post by **deano69** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:28 pm

Also wise to use grease in the rack, rather than the oil originally specified.

Really BMC?The same as used on all the other greasenipples?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:15 pm

Yep - although I prefer to use Molygrease on all my nipples(!) and the rack - ordinary stuff will be fine. Damps out the rattles a bit too.

Post by **taupe** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 pm

Hi

Dismantle the rack as detailed in the manual and if the inner ball joint on the tie rod is not damaged you can adjust the fit using shim steel as detailed under J6 in the manual. Its got to be worth a try - it might just be the lockwasher has come loose and needs retightening and re locking!

Post by **Dean** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:37 pm

bmcecosse wrote: I prefer to use Molygrease on all my nipples(!)

Stops the crocodile clips from sticking....

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:42 pm

MrMM says he has already replaced the track rod (= 'tie rod' in the Manual, although surely an 'American' description of the part ? ) - so have to assume he adjusted it up snuggly at the time !

Post by **Dean** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:23 am

"Never assume" my boss so frequently and annoyingly keeps telling me!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:37 am

Of course that's right -if you can research the thing yourself. Here - we have to go on what we are told!

Post by **mrmorrisminor** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:38 pm

Hi,
Thanks for the suggestions, I will take tha rack off the car and have a look inside.
I think I may have confused people with 'track rod' I meant the end joint that screws to the end of the rack and bolts to the steering arm...

Anyhow, I will update when I have had a go

Thanks again

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:47 pm

Ahh - that's the 'track rod end' - often shortened to TRE - and yes, it screws onto the 'track rod', although the Manual is using the american 'tie rod' to describe the part. So - yes - the track rod inner ball joints are adjustable - just take care to NOT twist the rack while loosening off the inner ball joints.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:50 pm

I think I may have confused people with 'track rod' I meant the end joint that screws to the end of the rack and bolts to the steering arm...

don't worry - you only confused Roy. Everone else seemd to get it.
He's right that it's called the track rod end. from the description it does seem that the ball joint on the end of the rack is the culprit, and that can be checked / re-shimmed as mentioned by Taupe.

It's much easier to work on these with the rack off the car, and this allows a better inspection of the rack.
if you plan to maintain the car properly / regularly then the rack should be lubricated with axle oil (EP80/90). Grease is only worth using if you don't plan to follow the service shedule.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:03 pm

No - I wasn't confused -I could imagime very well what was meant - but I have to answer the question as written. ALL other racks of identical design in later cars (Mini/TR7 etc etc etc) are specified for grease - not oil. The grease stays put! Oil runs to the bottom of the rack tube and just lies there.....doing nothing!

Post by **Dean** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:40 pm

That's interesting Roy, I guess the grease was a mod post Minor production perhaps? Reduced warranty claims or increased it's usable life or reduced servicing.

Post by **Mogwai** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:59 pm

Personally I use oil. My concern about greasing the rack is the position of the nipple as there is a large cavernous space between it & the pinion bearings & teeth where the lubricant is needed most oil will flow there. On the triumph racks were grease is specified the nipple is on the pinion

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:17 pm

Mini rack is exactly the same as Minor (design wise - slightly shorter in reality) - and always specified for grease. My TR 7 rack is greased - not oiled - and the nipple is not at the pinion.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:25 pm

The oil does dry out quicker but as they last 60+ years if serviced correctly I don't see that doing it properly is a problem...

I guess the grease was a mod post Minor production perhaps? Reduced warranty claims or increased it's usable life or reduced servicing.

Most likely grease was used so the mechanics didn't need to put oil in a grease gun. I have a good (old) grease gun for that - the cheap new ones leak too much to use oil in them.

Having said that, Triumphs used trunnions with an oil feed !?

Post by **PSL184** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:36 am

rayofleamington wrote: Having said that, Triumphs used trunnions with an oil feed !?

Which gets replaced with grease too

Post by **Mogwai** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:11 pm

I'm not familiar with the tr7 rack but the 3 cars I've owned with earlier triumph racks in have had the lubrication point on the pinion & been of a completely different design to the minor one.

PSL184 wrote:
rayofleamington wrote: Having said that, Triumphs used trunnions with an oil feed !?
Which gets replaced with grease too

triumph trunions have been known to seize if grease is used as it dosnt get to the lower threads

back on topic,
it may be worth replacing/ adjusting the rack damper pads & whilst its out. I did mine the other year & made a noticeable difference to the sharpness of the steering

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:19 pm

Oh yes - if rack is out you really should adjust the damper - and the track rod inner joints.