Clutch for 1300 engine

Post by **ianselva** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 9:51 pm

I have a 1275 Midget engine I am planning to fit in our 1098 Traveller, but would like to use a 7 1/4" Diaghram clutch. Can anyone tell me which one to use ?
Also I have found the simplest way to increase performance has been to fit a set of Mini High lift Rockers ( ex my historic racer engine). It has enabled our Traveller to run a 3.7 diff quite happily with no other mods.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:33 am

Ian,

While you are at it why not fit the 5-speed sierra box (plenty of good ones in the scrap yards), then you can get the correct (Ford) clutch (diaphragm type) from the Morris Minor Centre in Birmingham who do the conversion kits. Although the conversion kits can be a bit expensive.

With regard to the high lift rockers, are they the 1.5 or 1.7 ratio types as I was thinking of getting a set myself from Minispares,

Also, you will have noticed an increase in top end power, but how is the low - medium range power, has it reduced, increased or stayed the same??

Cam.

Post by **ianselva** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:20 pm

I already have the Engine and don't really want to carry out more mods than neccesary, so will be keeping the BMC box but using a roller release bearing.
From what I remember I am using the 1.7 ratio rockers from Minispares and they seem to give a general increase in power all through the range. I already have a duplex chain kit fitted , (also ex racer) , which might be advisable with the high lift rockers.

Post by **lionellength** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:06 pm

Having done the change from a 1098 to a 1275 frankly I wouldn't bother. I would keep your 1098, put on a 12G295 cylinder head and an 1inch and 1/2 SU a decent exhaust and your not that far short on bhp compared to a 1275. Plus you don't have a very heavy clutch an a fuel greedy engine.

Post by **Cam** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:41 pm

Lionel,

There is a HUGE difference between the 1098 and the 1275, especially if you use a free flowing exhaust & air filter.

whatever mods you do to the engine to produce more power it will produce a more fuel greedy engine (if you put your foot down).

in any case, a tuned 1098 is far more stressed than a stock 1275 plus the 1275 has more torque due to it's displacement which makes for easier driving.

also, the 1275 is a stronger unit and has more tuning potential (120-130BHP).

with regard to the clutch, I have a sierra diaphragm clutch mated to a minor flywheel with hydraulic operation and it feels no heavier than the standard setup.

Post by **Robins** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:14 pm

Well I'm with Lionel on this one. I have a 1275 A+ Ital engine in one of my moggies, decent engine and bored out to +20 pistons I think. 1 3/4" carb with free flow inlet and exhaust manifolds and system, K&N filter.
And its complete crap compared to my van which is simple 1098 with free flow inlet & exhaust, K&N, 1 1/2" carb different cam shaft. My van will out power my 1275 mog anyday!! Where have I gone wrong?
Any thoughts on the matter would be much apreciated.

Post by **Cam** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 10:08 pm

Well, you can't argue with experience, it just seems that we have had different experiences!!!

Although by definition the 1275 (A+ Ital) must be more powerful than the 1098 (Minor) with a (new) BHP of 61 as compared to 48

In my experience the 1098 minor engine was a bit more docile than my 998 mini engine.

When I changed my mini engine to a 1293 (1275 +20thou rebore) it was a LOT quicker, that was with a freeflowing exhaust, inlet, K&N filter, CA2 cam.

When I changed my 1098 Moggy engine for the 1380 A+ unit, the change was just as much again!

my old 1098 used to slow down and struggle to get up a bank near where I live, the 1380 accelerates by 25mph+ from bottom to top, and the bank is quite steep!

I would summise that either your engines are in different states of tune, or your 1098 is correctly set up and OK, and your 1275 is out of tune and not running as it should.

My 1380 can match or outperforms most 1.6 - 1.8 sports saloons, including Golf GTI, XR3i, SRi, etc.

Whereas the 1098 used to struggle to outperform milkfloats! (much as I loved it!!).

Here is my 1380 Engine spec:
Fully machined and prepared A+ Morris Ital block.
Reground and tuftrided crankshaft.
Omega 73.5mm 11cc dished pistons.
Kent 276 duration camshaft with Kent followers.
Duplex timing gears and chain.
High capacity oil pump.
Competition bearing set.
Modified Minor flywheel assembly with new clutch cover and plate.
Fully balanced.
10:1 Compression ratio.
Minor engine front plate.
Modified engine back plate to suit modified Midget clutch bell housing.
Lucas 45D4 distributor with Aldon Ignitor electronic ignition.
Metro alternator, fanbelt & enlarged Maestro adjuster bracket.
Mini ignition coil (non-ballast type).

MED Road Competition Head:
Fully modified (Ported & Gas flowed).
21NS Stainless Steel 37mm Inlet & 31mm Exhaust valves.
Silicon valve guides.
New double springs (Cooper 'S' type).
19.5cc Chambers.
Ital rocker assembly
NGK BP8ES Spark Plugs

Single 1 3/4" (HIF 44) S.U. Carburetor with BBZ Needle.
M.G. Metro inlet manifold.
K&N cone type air filter.

I can conclude that in my experience, with the 1098 you KNOW you are driving a classic, but with the 1275 you can easily keep up with the modern traffic.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Post by **Robins** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:58 pm

That sounds like one very nice motor you have there Cam.
Well from that it would seem I have somthing wrong with my 1275 engine.

I took my 1275 moggie out today for a drive. I can get wheel spin pulling away and succesfully carry out a donut just down the road but a top speed of 45mph is not my idea of performance. This from an engine thats done very low millage since rebuild.

I then took my 1098 van out and was able to beet a peugeot 405 away from the lights (he was trying believe me). no wheel or donuts but fast.

Well I think I need the 1275 set professionally.

What cc would a 1098 engine with a +40thou rebore become?

Post by **Willie** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 7:57 pm

crikey...wheelspin off the line and a top speed of 45MPH!!
Either that is a misprint of you are running a 10:1rear axle,
which would explain your problems! What is your correct
top speed please.
Willie

Post by **Cam** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 8:00 pm

I can get wheel spin pulling away and succesfully carry out a donut just down the road

Nice one!! Donuts are fun!!!

but a top speed of 45mph is not my idea of performance.

No, mine neither, the fastest I have been in mine (calculated from the revs) was about 110MPH, and I dare not go faster, although it seemed to want to, so it seems that your 1275 seriously needs looking at!!

I then took my 1098 van out and was able to beet a peugeot 405 away from the lights (he was trying believe me). no wheel or donuts but fast.

Sounds like you have a nicely tuned 1098! Always nice to beat a euro-box. Have you noticed how they absolutely HATE it!! Ha Ha!

A standard 1098 with a +40 thou rebore will give 1132cc (69 cubic inches).

Have fun and keep up the good work!!!

Post by **Cam** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 8:10 pm

Actually Robins, thinking about it, I had a similar problem when I tried a HIF44 carb on my 1293 mini engine.

The low down torque was fine, but it would not go above about 40ish without popping and farting. It turned out that I had a massive air leak and the wrong needle!! - might be worth checking out - check your timing also, dynamically and see if it is advancing properly.

Post by **Robins** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:10 pm

Willie
Not a misprint, the top speed was actually 45mph crazy though it may seem.

Cam
Your Moggie sounds great!
Thanks for that bit of advice mate you could be onto something with the carb as I have had awful trouble setting it up and carbs are not really my area. give me a welder or spray gun anyday. I will also check the timming and let you know how I get on. Cheers mate.

Post by **Willie** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:16 pm

Lo, simple as it seems are you sure that your carb piston is able
to rise fully? I have had this twice,once when it was merely rubbing on the dashpot chamber and once when the dashpot plunger which
enriches the mixture on acceleration had broken(very rare). Try fully raising it with your finger and hope it sticks because that would be your
easiest solution!!
Willie

Post by **Robins** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:32 pm

Well guys I'm a bit stuck now as far as this 1275 engine is conserned. I tried a suggestion from a customer of mine, it was to build up the revs and then pull the choke out all the way and keep accelerating then push it in as I drop the clutch then do the same up through all the gears.
Result: It works, it works so well I scared myself. As soon as that choke came out the power increase was phenomenal and I gained up to 95mph in no time. At this speed things started to rattle a lot!, and had to slow down although it really wanted to go faster.
So yes Cam your right the 1275 motors do have a big difference in power over the 1098.
But why do I have this problem that power is only gained by pulling the choke out. It does need to be pushed in again at the lower revs or there is to much fuel and it does not like it. Any thoughts are much appreciated.
I did also check the carb piston and it moves up and down smoothly but a good thought.
Cheers.

Post by **Cam** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:59 am

Right,

You are loosing power at high reves because the engine is leaning out. Which is being partially cured by you pulling the choke out and enriching the mixture.

This leaning out could be attributable to a few things:

The air intake on the side of the carb fror the breathers is not blocked off.

You may have a vacuum take off that needs blocking (i.e. one on the carb and one on the manifold)

There is a leak in between the manifold and the head.

There is a leak in between the carb and the manifold.

The manifold may have a servo take-off which is not blocked off properly.

You have completely the wrong needle in the carb.

If you can tell me exactly what inlet, carb and engine you have, together with a description of what is blanked off and what is connected to what, it would aid fault finding.

A picture of the setup would be helpful as well as telling me which needle you have in the carb. (stamped on the side of the needle - have to remove it to see).

Post by **Robins** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:15 pm

I have a Ital A+ 1293 engine (+20thou rebore) with a HIF 1 ¾ inch carb from a Metro, running through a MG Metro alloy inlet manifold and all gaskets sealed with red hermitite.

Blanked off bits are the servo take off point sealed with new copper washers, and what looks like another vacuum advance takeoff point on the manifold also sealed off.

From the carb there is a pipe running to the timming chain cover breather system thing (aparently needed), the vacuum pipe to dizzy, and a vent tube which when on the Metro ran down to the subframe and ended, which I assume is ment to do the same as when it's blocked off the engine just wont run.

The needle has 'BER' stamped on it and looks ok.

I can't work out how to attach a image to this post so I will email you the pic of my setup cam. (anyone else want to see the pic just email me)

Thanks.

Post by **Cam** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:50 pm

Robins,

Got your pic OK, it looks like you are running a similar setup to me (carb and manifold wise).

The BER needle should be OK for standard engines, and with your setup it should be slightly too lean all the way through the rev range and especially at the top, but should not cause the serious leaning out problem that you are experiencing, although if you have a richer needle lying around (such as a BBZ then it might be worth a try).

I am still leaning toward the air leak.

I noticed that the servo take off point is just crimped over once. I did mine 3 times and really flattened it to make it air tight. Try taking it off, smearing the crimped end with fairy liquid and blowing down it to see if it is air tight.

Also make sure that the front timing chain breather pipe is securely fixed to the carb and not loose. You could also try removing this pipe and blanking off the pipe on the carb to eliminate the pipe / breather canister. It will be OK not connected to the front canister for the purposes of testing.

Check your timing is advancing when the engine is being reved, as a split pipe to the dizzy would cause an air leak and show up as not advancing your timing when it was supposed to.

The vent tube that you talk about sounds like the carb overflow pipe, which should be left open to atmosphere, as it keeps the float bowl at atmospheric pressure.

Also I notice that you are running a standard fuel pump. This will not be able to supply enough fuel at full power (mine wouldn't ). If you have a slightly weak fuel pump, it could be causing fuel starvation at high RPM. Mine used to be OK when stamping on the gas, but start spluttering when the revs got high and the fuel bowl got empty - worth checking out also.

Check the above and get back to us!!

Post by **Robins** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 12:46 pm

Hi Cam
Well you certainly know your stuff mate. I've sorted the engine with the aid of your advise and it runs as sweet as a nut. I owe you one mate.
The problem was the breather hose running between the carb and the timing chain cover, a combination of the clamp at the carb end had worked a bit loose, and the end down on the timing chain cover (difficult to see and get at) had a big split in it, so all fixed now. Its amazing that somthing like that can cause so much problems, and the power increase of the 1293cc over a 1098 is insain, so a very big thanks mate.

Oh and you said about my servo take off point being crimped over once, it does look like that because of the angle of photo and other crap under the bonnet, but I actually took it off and replaced it with a peice of 22mm copper tube sandwiched between the copper washers and used the original servo nut to clamp all in place. This I think gives a better or rather easier seal. Being a plumber I have the tool to cut the pipe dead square so no air leaks.

The fuel pump seems ok and is new (recon, what ever) but what sort of pump would you recomend? somthing from an MGB or would that be to powerful?

Cheers mate.

Post by **Cam** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 5:20 pm

Robins,

Glad to be if assistance, and more importantly that your problem is sorted out

With regard to the fuel pump, yours may be OK if you don't thrash the car about all over the place.

The easiest way to tell is to accelerate from a standing start with your foot planted on the gas (wide open throttle) reaching the redline (whatever you have set that to) in each gear until you have rached top speed.

If if does not start spluttering, and you can reach top speed OK then your pump can supply enough fuel for your engine.

If not:

The MGB pump would supply more fuel, but you may have to put a pressure regulator in-line set to about 2psi to keep the carb and needle valve from over fueling.

Or alternatively get a Facet fast road pump with a filter king filter & regulator.

But try yours first, as it may be OK.

Post by **jaapvelo** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:37 pm

Any suggestions for wich parts to use : frictionplate / Diaghram / clutchrelease bearing

Are there any conversions avialable for the releasebearing from the carbon one?
Jaap