Unreliable brakes

Post by **Dickie524** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:35 pm

Hi there folks – nice to have joined the discussion at last!
I have an interesting one at the moment wherein when I adjust the brakes, they stay adjusted for about six miles, after which there is loads of travel again and I have to pump the pedal to make it stop, and ease my toe under it to bring it back again! The brake pedal spring is attached as it springs back with gusto on a short press and when the brakes are just fully adjusted. This has been getting progressively worse. The master cylinder is full of fluid, the master itself was replaced only a few months ago, and the ratchet adjusters at the ends of the brake shoes appear to be fine – the screw heads are staying in the same position anyhow so I don’t think they’re backing off any. I can’t find any hydraulic leaks either.
The car does have a servo attached (not 100% advisable with drums/ shoes, I know, but there have been no problems until now). There is also a good thickness of pad left & I can't think of anything else!
Any advice gratefully received! Cheers folks!!!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:27 pm

Welcome to the measage board.
If you get a varying degree of pedal travel, but you're not loosing fluid then it sounds like an internal leak somewhere.
As the master cylinder return stroke seems a bit iffy (it should spring back even without the pedal spring) I suggest that would be a good place to start investigation.
It's not a nice job to get the m/c out, but a lot of time can be saved for removal if you use a crowbar to bend the torsion bar - thus allowing the bolts to come out.
Theres a mention of this in more detail in the useful tips section.

Post by **iwant1** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:11 pm

When i took my master cylinder out for the 1st time, i found that i didnt have to lever the torsion bar, because the bolts were in the other way around, this made perfect sense to me so i put them back in that way as well. Can't see why it would cause problems.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:19 pm

iwant1,
The only problem you can get is that under load the torsion bar can rub on the nuts (the nuts are bigger than the bolt head). This puts grooves into the torsion bar and is a stress point but many many cars are like yours with the bolts reversed and I've not heard any horror stories.

Quite often people can't see a way past the torsion bar so they cut the heads off the original bolts and then refit with new bolts the other way round.

Post by **Willie** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:42 pm

I think that the question here is, when your brakes develop this
fault is it cured by adjusting the shoes? If YES then it seems to me
that the shoes MUST be backing off on their own. If NO then your
application of the brake pedal is not moving enough fluid to make
the shoes engage with the drums,hence the need to pump the
pedal. This condition can only be down to the master cylinder
not moving as much fluid as it should do? better follow RAYO's
advice. The reversal of the master cylinder bolts so that
the nut end is next to the torsion bar is one of the most common
mods on the Minor. The original fitting ensured that,should the
bolts come loose they could not possibly fall out and allow the
M/C to move. As pointed out it is only necessary to check that
neither the nut nor the end of the bolt is close enough to contact
the torsion bar if you choose to reverse the original fitting

Post by **newagetraveller** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:14 pm

The fact that you have to pump the brakes to get them to work makes me wonder whether you didn't bleed them properly when you fitted the new master cylinder and there is still air in the system.