Engine out

Post by **MarkyB** » Sat May 02, 2009 6:54 pm

As the engine has to come out to change the main bearing shells I thought I'd take a few pictures to document it.
I don't have an engine crane so I took it out using a trolley jack which I've done a couple of times before.
Here it is on the jack:

The balance point is towards the rear because of the flywheel (forgot this first try as it's been a while)
Also I seem to have aged a bit since the last time as I'm pooped now

.
Thinking this might be an issue I took off the ancillaries and head first. Which revealed this:

Even Ahmadinejad looks concerned!Here is the manifold:

Looks like more than a little chance of an air leak

Here's the head:

Which looks fine given that the car ran fine (apart from a rattle at start up) and was only driven out of the garage and turned round last time it ran.
Here is the engine number:

I'm going to lash out on an heritage certificate to see if it's original as I have most of the old MOTs and service history and I'm keen to know if this is the engine it came out of the factory with in 1968.
The bores are all in good condition apart from number 1 which has a barely detectable ridge on each side.
No sign of cross hatching and I haven't cleaned the tops of the pistons yet but I'm guessing the bore is standard.
Will it be worth putting a set of new standard rings on and should I glaze bust the bores if I do?

Post by **alanworland** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:43 pm

I have never heard of it done before but I think I might be tempted to carefully remove the ridge with an engineering scraper before fitting new rings as I think it might not like a ridge (however small)
I would definately glaze bust the bores as this will give soething for the oil to hang on to.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:07 pm

#3 Appears to be running 'oily' - the black exhaust valve tells the story. You should indeed remove the ridge if fitting new rings - emery will do it although it takes a while, and 'glaze bust' the bores with emery before fitting rings. But if you were happy enough with the oil consumption before - it may be best to just leave alone, and so DO NOT clean the tops of the pistons - disturbing the carbon can make it start to burn oil.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:32 pm

DO NOT clean the tops of the pistons

Are you reffering to the top outer edge of piston (i.e. next to the rings)?
The actual top of the piston should be cleaned anyway.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:38 pm

No advantage in cleaning the top of the piston - just leave it be ! But yes - if you feel you really MUST clean them - at least leave the edges untouched! Take great care to NOT score the soft alloy surface - it really is best to just leave them as they are. There's plenty of cleaning and valve grinding to be done on that head - to keep you busy for a good few hours!

Post by **MarkyB** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:25 am

The carbon on the piston tops is all in the dish so I can't see how it would effect oil consumption.
Also I'll have to clean one of them anyway to see if they are oversized.
It may be that the rings I have are stepped to avoid wear ridges, have to have a look.
An engineering scraper sounds like a useful tool but I don't have one so emery will have to do.
Shouldn't take long as it is really a very slight ridge on Number 1.
Number 3 does look oilier than the rest so I'll scrutinise that one more closely.
Here is the bell housing which tells a tale too:

It seems that oil was only getting past the scroll seal at quite high speeds which tallys with the oil consumption I was seeing.
The engine is one of the dirtiest inside that I've seen.
Even the push rods have got quite a coating of carbon on them.
Anyhow, less typing, more tinkering.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:50 am

Oil goes past the seal due to crankcase pressure - and worn main bearing. So if you fit rings and shells (and advise a new oil pump) - it should be ok for a while - if you connect a breather to the carb inlet. The engine was obviously not running weak - so don't worry about any air leak at the carb gasket!

Post by **MarkyB** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:31 pm

Part Two
Things didn't start very well.
Took the bypass hose off no problem. Went to take off the bottom hose and the was an ominous pop when I was trying to free the hose off with gland nut pliers.

After that the rest went well, pistons popped out:

Am I wrong in thinking these rings aren't original? I seem to recall the originals had one piece oil control rings.
Can't see a step on the top ring and there isn't on the new rings I have.
Not oversize:

The other main shells much as expected:

Here is the oil pump (I have a replacement) The housing seemed to be coated in the lead Indium from the mains.

The top thrust washers don't have tabs, only the bottom ones.
I suspect what I'd done before was to slip the thrust washer out the “leaned” on the crankshaft to get the rear main out.
Anyway, in for a penny in for a pound.
Less tired today maybe because I made a point of having so lunch instead of working through.
Where might I get an engineering scraper from?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:45 pm

Yes - these are NOT original rings. New water pump is cheap! Mains are badly worn away - but no obvious scoring, so should be ok with new shells. And that's just 'clag' on the oil pump!

Post by **Dean** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:53 pm

This is great education, thanks everyone.

Post by **MarkyB** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:31 pm

Spent most of today cleaning, painting and mostly scraping old gaskets off.
What grade of wet and dry to do the glaze busting with? is the question for today.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon May 04, 2009 8:29 pm

Emery - not wet&dry. Rough grade ~80 grit. Just wrap a sheet around your hand and work up and down the bore in a sort of 45 degree cross-hatch pattern. New sheet for each bore if you have it!

Post by **alanworland** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:01 pm

I have made (ground on off hand grinder) scrapers from worn files - you would be best off with a three square in a bore - they are made from some good steel!
I wouldn't know where you would buy one - local engineering suppliers?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:55 pm

Gentle localised rubbing with the emery will remove the top ridge - or at least blend it in enough to do no harm.

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:26 pm

Blimey! 80 grit is very coarse. Maybe I'll chuck some gravel down there and give it a good stir.
One sheet per bore! I'm not made of abrasives!
Seriously though, I asked around a few local motor factors today for a glaze busting tool.
None of them had one, and only the old blokes even knew what I was talking about and they hadn't seen one for years.
I'm going to ask the engineering dept. tomorrow as there are some old school tinkerers there.
Running in oil seemed to be in short supply too (the instructions on the rings suggest it).
The most likely looking stuff was SAE 30 or 40 which had a picture of a Morris on the can which I thought might be a good omen

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:34 pm

You can get a hone for electric drill to do the glaze busting ( like this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-ENGINE-CYLIND ... C294%3A50- ) but 80 grit emery on your hand will be fine - unless you have big hands (like me) that will just fit in a 1275 bore - but not a 1098 bore! In which case - employ a child to do the job! The idea is to leave behind a criss cross pattern of light 'scores' on the surface - it's not too critical, just do what you can. ASDA 20W50 oil will be fine - there's really no need for much 'running in' - but change it after 500 miles or so if you must!