The future of the minor

[polo2k]

Hi all, im having a bit of a pensive posting fest!
Been thinking recently that the minor is starting to get to a position where its future can be held in one suppliers hands, or by a particular fault.

the trunnions are a perfect example, Ive seen talk about producing a redesigned item to alliviate supply and sustainability problems. These new parts could also look at the failings of the previous part (in all and excessive use/abuse)

Ive used the trunnions as the obvious example but what other parts could be useful?

Do the mini guys have anything similar?

Another example is metro seats in a minor but I was thinking modern parts, not nessesarily electronic and scary but somthing simple that anyone could work with.

One sad example of this happening is in the VAG range the following are now dinosaurs as the parts are becoming obselete and therefore the cars aren`t surviving;
Mk1 golf
Mk2 golf
Mk3 golf (starting to be phased out quite seriously)
their derivatives are similarly affected
Sirroco
Corrado
Etc

I realiser that this is engineered into the lifecycle of the car these days but on a minor its simply because there isnt the demand to make things economical.

So... whos got any ideas, maybe if we pool them we might be able to make moggie life a little longer

[polo2k]

Ive had a few ideas so ill start the ball rolling:

Recirculating fuel system:
Kit allows a circulating sysem to be added to the minor.
The original fuel line is cut before it enters the engine bay and attached to a T piece (one line from the tank, one to the SU pump and one to the new, non SU, pump)
This would help alliviate fuel vaporitation by reducing fuel temperature (the residual fuel in the tank acts as a heat sink)
An alternative could be to use the original SU pump with the T piece on the out put (one from SU pump, one to the carb and one to the tank) this would help when running in hot conditions by keeping the fuel moving. The return line would need to be smaller bore to increce pressure so the pump isnt going 10 to the dozen.
On both of these the return could be incorperated into a new pipe to replace the filler to tank tube and would essentially be a big T piece. the fuel return would enter as if you were filling up (but slower obviously)


Ive just seen a progran on discovery called how stuff is made. They were making everlasting coffins! one of the early stages in production was riveting a Zinc strip under the coffin as a sacrifical metel so this ionises and reduces corrosion. I presume this is done to save the expence of galvenising as I beleve that uses Zinc too. Coulr this be allpied to the minor? could the Zinc be added to a top layer in the paint (I know the primer is available) so that the zinc could electrolise and then then be T cutted off?
If someone can get the zinc chemical/powder that is used in the primer, Ive got a Gun and a spare bonnet that I would be willing to ginnea pig to test.


Front Suspension Modification.
Reviewed front suspension keeping the feel of the original design.
The tortion bars could be mounted transversly, this would then act a little like the rear suspension on most late 90`s french hatchbacks with a trailling arm principle with a vertical telescopic damper where the top mount fits to a stong plate running up the inside of the front inner wing. this plate then goes round the chassis leg and could be wider at the bottom than the top so it is triangulated.
This would nessesitate the tortion bars locating below the front crank journal and below the rear crank journal, the sump could be modified for clearence but kept deep enough around the bigends and oil pickup. obviously this would reduce capasity (does that make it greener )

Rear suspension modification.

Is there a modern car that uses a a diff and then driveshafts with CV joints in them? 1 series BMW? Basically anything with a NON live rear axle. A diff could be sourced and then mounted to a "space frame rear end" incorperating suspension, brakes and drive. The rest would probably need to be custom but sould be make like the front suspension on a Cateram

so there would be a top and bottom arm introduced, New bearing carriers/hubs etc.
It would act like a trapeziod with a diaganal brace (coil over shock like on a bike?) The overall height of this assembly could be kept low to avould the wood boot floor on sallon and traveler models.
A mod like this would also make rear structural corrosion a much lesser problem (spring hangers etc).
With clever triangulation it could probably clear the fuel tank.
This would nessesitate snipping big lumps of the original boot floor but would make the rear end a lot more servicable.

Im just thinking out loud (on a computer ) so that might not all make sence. Im just thinking that if we get enough ideas up then we can sort out much bigger things than we would be able to other wise

::EDIT:: just noticed that the pic I posted is a FWD car!!! didnt know they did them! di there a possibility transplanting parts? the steering could be locked off by tying the steering knuckle to the space frame, if 2 track rods were ued you could change the toe in/out !!!

[benmagoo]

This is the exact reason for saving a many scrapped and doomed cars / bits as possible.

With the price of scrap metal as it is at the moment the temptation is too high for many but saving many of these 2nd hand resourses will keep many classic cars going for years to come.

[bmcecosse]

Errr - it's not Front Wheel drive ! They don't do them.
What you are seeing is the track rod - for the steering.
Your fuel system will have the SU pump going nighteen to the dozen - it's really not necessary.
Front suspension - there are alternatives available from some of the major specialists- no need to redesign it all again!
Rear suspension - don't see the point of your redesign. It would be massively expensive - and what's the advantage?
If you really want to upgrade it all - just fit Mini front and rear subframes and go front wheel drive !
Zinc - yes sacrificial zinc is an excellent idea, just bolt some chunks on under the car where they will get wet. But the effect is likely to be localised. For it to work - the zinc and steel must be in electrical contact.

[MoggyTech]

I can't see the Major Minor Parts Suppliers allowing vital parts to end up not being available. The current kingpin fiasco is down to third World countries being given work they cannot do properly, in this case pour molten metal into a casting mold without creating air bubbles and stress fractures.

As for radical re-design, really not needed. Part of owning a classic is regular maintenance, not only to mechanicals, but to underside, rust traps etc.

I can't think of any 60 year old classic that doesn't have inherent problems here and there, all part of the heritage and charm IMHO.

The biggest concern, has to be, that some of the parts currently on offer, are of poor quality, other parts are superb. I just received a new track rod end from ESM which cost about £6.50 inc VAT excellent quality, with grease nipple, and it can be stripped down, cleaned shimmed. Go buy a TRE for a 2005 VW Polo and note the price difference, and it's sealed for life, although they don't state whos life.

[StaffsMoggie]

The continued survival of the Minor depends on the availability of parts. The availability of parts depends on demand for them. So, the longevity of the Minor's will be greatly helped by their continued regular use.

The Minor's parts supply is so good simply because so many of the cars are in daily use. It is these cars that are helping to keep the parts supply continue. The other side of this of course is that of the supply of body panels, the demand for these being created by those cars being restored. Hopefully, once restored, these cars will be seeing some use and needing the occasional part or two.

[bigginger]

.

Is there a modern car that uses a a diff and then driveshafts with CV joints in them? 1 series BMW?

Is this not the case with all RWD IRS cars? Have a look at the Jag set up as seen on hundreds of customs, or the Sierra one on many kits

[StaffsMoggie]

.

Is there a modern car that uses a a diff and then driveshafts with CV joints in them? 1 series BMW?

Is this not the case with all RWD IRS cars? Have a look at the Jag set up as seen on hundreds of customs, or the Sierra one on many kits

Certainly. The Sierra (and Granada) IRS set-up has seen use under many a kit car. The BMW 3 series is another good donor.

[dunketh]

The main problem affecting the minor is the catch 22 of supply and demand. Because of the small market suppliers have to charge a kings ransom for decent 'innovative' parts. The flip side is, because of these prices most folk cant afford to buy them - thus the circle continues.

I fear any redesign or development work would fail for these reasons.

Its different in the MG or Mini world where one camp clearly has plenty of money, and the other has a huge economy of scale to keep it going.
Bare in mind they were still knocking out minis in the mid 90s so effectively none of their parts can be considered 'old' and about to run out.

[jonathon]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you, Dunketh.

[StaffsMoggie]

The main problem affecting the minor is the catch 22 of supply and demand. Because of the small market suppliers have to charge a kings ransom for decent 'innovative' parts. The flip side is, because of these prices most folk cant afford to buy them - thus the circle continues.

I fear any redesign or development work would fail for these reasons.

Its different in the MG or Mini world where one camp clearly has plenty of money, and the other has a huge economy of scale to keep it going.
Bare in mind they were still knocking out minis in the mid 90s so effectively none of their parts can be considered 'old' and about to run out.

Mini production ended 2000.

[chickenjohn]

I can't see the Major Minor Parts Suppliers allowing vital parts to end up not being available. The current kingpin fiasco is down to third World countries being given work they cannot do properly, in this case pour molten metal into a casting mold without creating air bubbles and stress fractures.

As for radical re-design, really not needed. Part of owning a classic is regular maintenance, not only to mechanicals, but to underside, rust traps etc.

I can't think of any 60 year old classic that doesn't have inherent problems here and there, all part of the heritage and charm IMHO.

The biggest concern, has to be, that some of the parts currently on offer, are of poor quality, other parts are superb. I just received a new track rod end from ESM which cost about £6.50 inc VAT excellent quality, with grease nipple, and it can be stripped down, cleaned shimmed. Go buy a TRE for a 2005 VW Polo and note the price difference, and it's sealed for life, although they don't state whos life.

I agree absolutley with MT, and in addition its crazy to suggest that modification is the way to secure the future of the Minor. Keep it standard and demand better parts and good supply from the Minor traders. The more standard cars there are, the more demand there is for the standard set of parts, i.e the parts the car came out of the factory with, the more viable it is for new standard parts to be manufactured and this will secure the future of the Minor.

[jonathon]

I'd go along with that John, but with the condition that customers who are prepared to ask for quality items , are also prepared to pay a reasonable cost for them. Unfortunately the Minor market is led by those who want cheap parts regardless of quality, hence the dire situation we find our selves in at the moment.
Manufacturers will not improve their quality unless it is viable for them to do so financially.
I suppose that one side effect of this will be fewer Minors run on a shoe string, and a more affluent ownership. The latter of which is already taking form.

[aupickup]

hmm no longer the cheap classic

mg comes to mind to change to a better classic maybe

[jonathon]

Not too sure if there is such a thing Dennis. The only true 'cheap to run' classic is one with both a good body and mechanicals. We all know just how much it costs to achieve this when starting with a less than perfect example.
Regardless of marque we are dealing with 'old' cars, 30 + years old, so one cannot realistically expect 'cheap' motoring. If you do then you should really buy a modern.

[StaffsMoggie]

As bad as the quality of some Minor parts is, the situation is nowhere near as bad as that of the VW air cooled scene. There is really some utter scrap on sale to that market.

The Triumph parts available are usually of a decent quality. In most cases the parts are of OE standard. The same is true of the stuff offered to the MG market.

[chickenjohn]

" In most cases the parts are of OE standard."

Thats what we need- OE standard quality parts, at least. And for the modified scene- modfiers adapt what they find from other cars for their modded cars so there is really no need for Minor suppliers to sell a "standard" range of modifying parts.

I should make it clear that I have nothing againts modded cars, and indeed, i enjoy seeing a properly modded cars, its just that for the long term survival of the Minor, a full range quality standard spec parts to supplt the vast majority of mostly standard spec cars is the way to go.

[jonathon]

Not quite sure of your logic re the mods scene John.
Surely mods designed and built to a high standard and specific to the Minor is a better and safer way to ensure that mods are done correctly, rather than the many lash ups that we have witnessed over the years.
To use parts from available cars, also means, especially in the case of the Marina/Ital that we are compromising other classics to satisfy our needs. or more than likely ,grafting in parts that are less sympathetic to the original car than the mods supplied by the trade.
I do not suggest that home brew cars are substandard, infact there are many excellent examples , but I feel these are out weighed by those with enthusiasm, and no ability or knowledge to be certain that what they do is safe.
As more and more Minors are modified, be it brakes, better seats, suspension etc, there is a need to know that products are available that have been tested and approved to ensure safety. Many new younger members demand certain mods, to bring the Minor in line with a basic modern, to complement the inherent simplicity of the original mechanicals.

In terms of original OE quality panels, not a hope, unless a multi millionaire decided to invest in good tooling, for what is a very small market, populated by a lot of owners unwilling to pay the going rate for quality products. Panel wise I really do think that we are quite a way down the slippery slope.

[Judge]

Due to my concern over hoses, after discussing the matter with a manufacturer, they very kindly made some up for me to test.