Questions for the bikers of the forum

Post by **Furrtiv** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:25 am

Hi all, been a while since I posted, as my internet connection has gone kaka for no apparent reason. It seems I coan only get decent connections, despite paying for broadband from Virgin, late night and early morning times.

Anyhoo, I have some questions for the bikers of the forum, if you's be so kind;

I am thinking about doing a Direct Access course, and have attempted, despite the atrocious internet connection, to research this, but has anyone done one of these? What can I expect as a comlpete beginner, regarding stages of training?

What is a reasonable cost for a course? I've seen prices range widely, for what appear to be very similar course, from GBP550 to GBP800(approx).Now, I know that there are probably large overheads to cover, especially bike insurance if using the school's own machines, but there seems to be no average price to set a benchmark.

Also, I plan to eventually get a towbar on the Civic and, a while off but it would be nice to do, attach a bike trailer to the car for holidays around England - I passed my driving test in 2001, and would like to know if I'm legal to tow a trailer as I can't find any info about driving licence categories (Ihave B and B1, I think).

Thanks guys, I'm moving house soon so won't bother to get my connections fixed here, I'll have to log on at the library or at weekend late nights, so please don't think I'm ignoring anyone as I genuinely am struggling with this connection (took me fifteen minutes to load a web page at peak time this evening!).

Post by **chrisd87** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:36 pm

The cost will depend on your current experience and level of qualification. Do you have a current CBT certificate? Remember that you'll need to do your theory test before you start any course too.

Obviously it's going to cost more if you're starting from scratch as you will need firstly to spend a day doing your CBT and then more tuition on the road.

I paid about £300 for a 3-day '33bhp restricted' course last September. However I already had my CBT and had been riding for several months. That cost included the test itself, insurance, petrol and the use of their bike (mine wasn't suitable for the test). I'd expect a similar DAS course to be slightly more as the petrol/insurance/purchase of the 500cc bikes used will be more than the CG125 that I used.

£800 does sound a bit OTT to me, £550 sounds much more like it. Read every detail of what the course includes though - some are 'guaranteed pass' ones where if you fail first time they'll give you more coaching for free until you pass. Best really would be to go and have a chat with the instructors at the bike school if at all possible.

Remember to get it all done before October as the test is getting much more difficult, and the cost of tuition is likely to rise accordingly.

Post by **Matt** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:09 pm

With regard to towing behind a car its all a bit complex

Its all to do with gross vehicle train weights, gross trailer weights and unladen vehicle weights.

Basically you can tow what you like so long as the Max Gross Weight of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the car and the combined maximum weights of the 2 is 3500kg or less.

So assuming your civic weighs around 1000kg empty, and the max gross weight is about 2500kg. you could tow a trailer with a max gross weight of 1000kg (whether the trailer is loaded or not is irrelevant)

Also if the Combined train weight is more than 3500kg you will be fine so long as the max gross trailer weight is 750kg or less.

hope that makes some sort of sense?

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:56 am

Out of interest, why do you want to do the DAS. I only ask, because I side with my instructor (and friend) who - with her 15 years of experience instructing said that the DAS course was the worst thing anyone could do, and a completely insane idea. I know that the worst bikers I've met have been DAS riders (i.e. the riders most likely to park their bike in a hedge)...

Not that I want to put you off doing a DAS course, of course ;)

Post by **polo2k** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:06 am

I was going to mention somthing along those lines but was avoiding the flames. The procedure in place for the licence is drawn out to help people get the right experiance before they jusn on somthing more lively

Post by **8009STEVE** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:08 am

Also, I plan to eventually get a towbar on the Civic and, a while off but it would be nice to do, attach a bike trailer to the car for holidays around England - I passed my driving test in 2001, and would like to know if I'm legal to tow a trailer as I can't find any info about driving licence categories (Ihave B and B1, I think).

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022564
You CAN NOT Tow any trailer with the licence you have. You have to take another test to get the +E entitlement. Read this link for more information.

Post by **alex_holden** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:17 am

8009STEVE wrote:You CAN NOT Tow any trailer with the licence you have.

I don't think that's right. The +E is only needed for trailers over certain weight limits. From this page:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022521

Car licences obtained on or after 1 January 1997
If you passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 you're limited to vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass towing a trailer up to 750 kgs, or a vehicle and trailer combination up to 3.5 tonnes MAM providing the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. You'll need to pass an additional driving test in B+E if you wish to tow a caravan or trailer combination which exceeds these weight limits.

Post by **8009STEVE** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:07 am

Sorry I stand corrected.

Post by **chrisd87** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:50 am

Out of interest, why do you want to do the DAS. I only ask, because I side with my instructor (and friend) who - with her 15 years of experience instructing said that the DAS course was the worst thing anyone could do, and a completely insane idea. I know that the worst bikers I've met have been DAS riders (i.e. the riders most likely to park their bike in a hedge)...

Not sure I agree with this tbh, it depends on the individual. Fair enough jumping straight on an R1 or similar isn't the best idea, but there's no reason why someone sensible shouldn't get straight on a bike of more than 33bhp. Earlier this year I had an old Kawasaki ZXR750 (restricted to 33bhp, ahem) and am still very much alive.

I say go for the DAS as it gives you more flexibility and choice when it comes to getting a bike - something like a GS/CB/GPZ 500 would be a good bet as they have enough power to keep ahead of the traffic but not an insane amount.

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:53 pm

I'll admit there are people who are fine after the DAS test, and certainly it does give you a bigger range of bikes; but I stand with my old instructor on the issue; perhaps it's working in A&E that does it...

I learned so much on my 125, and while I'm unlikely ever to ride anything much bigger than a 500 just in terms of weight* (I struggled with my ex's ER-5, but I really would rather like an F-650GS) I definately feel it was the way to go.

* Unless I happen to come across a Vincent HRD Black Shadow, in which case weight be damned, I'm riding it

Post by **plastic_orange** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:38 pm

Biggest problem with Bikes is your ability to rein yourself in (current big bikes do 0 to 60 in under 3 seconds - Minor around 28 seconds). I don't have a problem with DAS, but I would not suggest a modern sportsbike as soon as you have your licence. Neither would I suggest you go on rideouts with other bikers (unless you trust them completely not to egg you on) until you have some miles under your belt (just about every club has an incident on each rideout ). A lot of Bikers (majority if I'm honest) would lead folk to believe that they are riding gods, talking up their speeds and cornering prowess (what a laugh to go out with them and find out the truth).
Choose your instructor carefully - perhaps join a local bike club, or internet club, and ask them for recommendations - some are superb - others so so.
Remember, you are more vulnerable on a bike, and that the general standard of driving is a joke, so you are on the defensive all the time.
As far as choice of bike goes - buy what you are comfortable with, with the plan to upgrade when ready. As you will no doubt be selling it when you have experience, it makes sense to buy a popular model eg. Suzuki Bandit 600, Suzuki SV650, Honda Hornet 600, Yamaha Fazer 600 etc. Don't buy anything chinese, or non mainstream - you will regret it.
Hope this helps

Pete

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:09 pm

Don't buy anything chinese, or non mainstream - you will regret it

Unless you're a nutcase like me, and love MZs (or Urals, or Jawas, or CZ's (god help you) or some other random strange brand) and are happy to keep them forever. *grins*

Post by **MoggyTech** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:47 pm

DAS often means 'Organ donor" sad to say. Do you really need a powerful bike so soon? £800 is about right, at least here in Scotland. I considered going back to two wheels a year or so back, but with the amount of cars on the road, and the general standard of drivers, no thanks. Oh and some of the big bikes are fuel guzzlers. Mate reckons he only gets low 30's on his Suzuki Bandit 1200cc.