When is a convertible not a (genuine) convertible?.....

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:26 pm

Doom and gloom

I've had my dream minor for just under a week. She's a beautiful clipper blue convertible. Slightly modified for safety and reliability.
List of Mods:

Uprated halfshafts
Owen Burton Telescopic shocks all round
Ford disc brake kit
Electronic Ignition
Kenlowe fan
Hazard warning lights
Alternator conversion
Halogen headlights
Hydralic clutch
1275cc Midget engine (overbored to 1340cc) Lightend and balanced. Unleaded head
Stainless steel exhaust
Claxon horn
Aluminimum radiator
Four branch manifold
Front anti roll bar
Newton commercial reclining seats
Minor Van wheels (slightly wider than saloon)
Inertia reel seatbelts x4
Electric cut out switch in boot. (for security)
Radio cassette and electronic ariel.

The car drives lovelly, apart from a propshaft vibration that is being sorted, and I genuinlly thought I'd got a good one.

Took the car to the Nottingham Minor Centre today for the propshaft and although they thought her lovelly they dropped the bombshell that she is not, in their opinion, a genuine convertible

The log book states the chassis number is MAT. The plate under the bonnet reads MAT too.
The previous owner said it was an original.
Not sure what to do now as it's not quite the car I thought but even saying that I paid £4200 for her and still think it was probably worth it but not the bargain I thought.
Should I approach the seller?
He is an elderly chap who was selling her due to ill health. I have the bill of sale that shows what he paid the owner before him just one year ago which was £7500

I also have the bill of sale from when that owner bought the car from Morris Minor Centre Bath in 1989 for £4450 (unmodified) and it states n there that the car is a convertible.

Bit down now, and the propshaft problem hasn't been fully sorted

Post by **alex_holden** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:37 pm

If the conversion was done to a good standard, why worry about what it was when it left the factory?

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:47 pm

Yep, I know what your saying but I'm dissapionted. Genuine convertibles do command a premium for one thing and I may have not been quite as hasty in parting with my cash if I'd have known.

Post by **Willie** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:47 pm

MAT is the correct designation for a tourer so why did they think it was not a genuine convertible? With all those mods there are many who would say it was not a Minor any longer but it sounds very appealing to me. As long as it looks like a Minor and you are enjoying it that's fine. A converted saloon,as long as all of the strengthening items have been fitted, would be fine too.

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:51 pm

The reasons thay thought it not a genuine convertible were that they said a convertible windscreen surround had been welded on to the bulk head. They said it had been done well but they could see the join on the A posts. Also the stregntheners on the B posts were not spot welded in quite the same way as the genuine factory ones. Also the car has the small holes on the A posts where a saloon would of had the interior light switch that operates from opening the door. They said that genuine convertibles don't have this.

Post by **bpr81a** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:57 pm

Is the chassis number stamped on the bulkhead near where the throttle cable goes through?

Just suppose the B-posts have been replaced/repaired - wouldn't you have had to add the strengthening piece? would you have spot welded it?

Post by **d_harris** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:57 pm

We had this discussion at the national. It was decided that the only real way to tell was from the chassis no. Original convertibles *may* have holes for the switches but they wouldn't have been used.

Post by **bpr81a** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:01 pm

Are the dash to a-post strengthening pieces spot or Mig welded?

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:21 pm

I think they said the dash to a post stregtheners are spot welded.

Post by **bpr81a** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:22 pm

as Original then - most conversions are Migged

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:23 pm

Phil and Keith have been working on Minors for 30 odd years so, (unfortunatly in this case), I suppose they're right

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:25 pm

Would the windscreen surround be joined to the A posts on a genuine convertible?

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:31 pm

So does nobody think I should contact the seller?

Post by **RogerRust** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:42 pm

I'm not at all sure it isn't genuine.

The courtesy light hole in the A post is a read herring - some originals had it!

And if the strengtheners are spot welded its my guess that it could be an original.

So I wouldn't worry.

Post by **ASL642** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:51 pm

Anyway, it was this car you fell for, no other. They all develop problems during ownership and because we love them, we fix it! Get the problems fixed, get in the car and enjoy driving it. Whether it started life as a saloon or a convertible it doesn't matter. It does sound like it is genuine, but after 40 odd years there are not many minors that have not been upgraded/modified.

Post by **d_harris** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:21 pm

muggwump, you can contact the seller if you feel agreived, but I bet the car was "sold as seen" meaning that you have already accepted the vehicle.

It sounds very much as if it is a genuine convertible - the welded A pillars may be indicitive of repairs in the past (maybe the car was vandalised and the most economic repair was to replace the entire area - Matt is about to do something similar on his trav)

Post by **iwsmithy** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:41 pm

The dash to A post strengtheners are easy to get to with a spot welder but the B post strengtheners are not accessible when you convert a saloon so are normally only MIG welded.
It sounds to me like the the car has been a convertible for years and you will never know who did or if it were chopped or cloned. When I bought our convertible from MMC Bath 18 years ago (when I was new to Minors) it was so rusty we were told the best thing to do was to chop off the windscreen surround and use it to convert a saloon but keep the identity of the original convertible. From what I understand it was quite commonplace for people (even some specialists) to do this. I'm glad I didn't now but as someone who owns both an original convertible and converted a saloon into a convertible I'd now say don't worry.

I've had people say my genuine convertble is a chop, when I know it isn't so I wouldn't worry about going back to the seller. You get the same sun tan whether it is a real one of not, enjoy the car and tell everyone it is real one when asked - it has the chassis number of one to back you up.

Post by **muggwump** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:46 pm

Thanks for the comments. It would be nice to know for certain. As, when or if I ever sell her it would be nice to be able to say with confidence that I was offering a genuine convertible. If not then I suppose I'd just have to say what I know and let the prospective buyer make their own mind up.

Post by **Dean** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:25 pm

muggwump, it sounds like you fell in love with the car. To be honest only an anorak would know for definite either way after doing a thorough examination. Everyone else would just see you tootling about in it with a big beam on your face. Can we really claim all our saloons or convertibles are how they left the factory.... I doubt it really. Enjoy it, life is too short mate.

Post by **Vikki** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:52 pm

hey i think i have a similar problem my chasis number starts with mat and its on the paperwork but when taking the interior out it looked like a blind man had cut the top off with a rusty saw!!! im not that experienced with moggys yet so i never know that could be how they came out the factory.