Chassis Leg/ Eye Bolt Surround

[Packedup]

Oh joy, I'm no longer feeling quite so positive.

Decided I might as well grease the suspension, and thought "That eye bolt seems to be sitting a bit funny/ loose". Oh not it's not, the ^&%&$* metal around it on the outer side has cracked/ split

Although the rest of the leg bares the usual signs of trolley jacks it's pretty solid.

So what do I do now (I know what i really want to do, but that won't help fix the car one bit!)? Is it possible to reinforce the area and weld it up, or is it new leg time? I really don't want to (and really can't afford to) replace the leg, but this is clearly rather vital to sort out!

I don't suppose any Minor welding types anywhere near Dorset would fancy beer money and my charming company for an afternoon to repair it..? (Don't all rush at once...)

[Kevin]

The repair is normally done using a half chassis leg section that is stepped to go inside the rear part of the leg clear of the eyebolt area, I have seen some awful repairs done in this area and personally would only have the half leg repair done sorry its not what you want to hear.

[Packedup]

sorry its not what you want to hear.

On the list of things I don't want to hear, this is pretty high up. Although not as high as hearing the thing needs doing in the first place.

It's annoying for so many reasons, one being the metal has merely fractured, there's absolutely not sign of rot. Having to shell out non existent cash for nearly 3 foot of metal to repair about 3 inches isn't putting a smile on my face right now, that's for sure.

So, to fit the half leg - Doesn't look exactly easy as the alignment must be a swine to get right. Any tips anyone?

[Kevin]

When I had one done a few years ago it looked far worse off the car and was even worse on the inside with more cracks apparent.
Still the Sadmog membership might take pity on you as you have offered beer and company

[MoggyTech]

The problem is getting access to do a proper repair from the inside, in fact it's just not possible, so what you end up with is an external repair that will look bodged. As said above 1/2 chassis leg time. Alignment not an issue as you only chop off the front, and the new leg slides into the rear portion left behind. Just measure eyebolt hole distance from centre crossmember, and distance between the front of each chassis leg before the cutting starts.

When complete, make sure suspension bushes are OK, and that top and bottom bump stops are fitted, to avoid any future stress fractures.

[chickenjohn]

MT "As said above 1/2 chassis leg time"

Fraid I agree with this also! No short cuts will be satisfactory on such an important structural/load bearing area. Inside of leg is likely to be rusty as said above. Lots of measuring, measure twice, cut once.

[Packedup]

When complete, make sure suspension bushes are OK, and that top and bottom bump stops are fitted, to avoid any future stress fractures.

*Whistles innocently*

Funny you should mention bump stops - I noticed a lack of them when I got the car, it was around the time I was looking for the cause of the nasty crashing over bumps. They're on the list of parts to buy as soon as I have any cash (next week).

I can see how measuring from crossmember for front/ back, and other leg for side to side keeps things in place, but what about vertically? Or should the floor stay where it should? I'm a little worried the weight of the engine pressing down on the mount that side (drivers) will throw things out.

[MoggyTech]

The front of the car should come off anyway to get the new leg aligned/welded to the front cross-member, options then are remove engine, or support engine with a hoist and undo the engine mountings from the tie plates. It's not an easy job, but not as bad as centre cross-member. Vertical alignment shouldn't be a problem, but as CJ says measure alot cut once.

The missing bump stops are likely to be the cause of the stress fractures, if the chassis leg is otherwise solid. The bump stops offer a little bit of cushioning to suspension bottom out. Without them you get some horrible forces pulling at the bulkhead damper bolts, and the eyebolt.

If you have fitted or are going to fit poly bushes, I would NOT use them at the front of the tie bar, use rubber ones there.

[Packedup]

The front of the car should come off anyway to get the new leg aligned/welded to the front cross-member, options then are remove engine, or support engine with a hoist and undo the engine mountings from the tie plates. It's not an easy job, but not as bad as centre cross-member. Vertical alignment shouldn't be a problem, but as CJ says measure alot cut once.

So with the engine weight off the front vertical alignment is just a matter of fitting the leg to the panelwork, no jiggling it around to get the right height?

That's good news

The missing bump stops are likely to be the cause of the stress fractures, if the chassis leg is otherwise solid. The bump stops offer a little bit of cushioning to suspension bottom out. Without them you get some horrible forces pulling at the bulkhead damper bolts, and the eyebolt.

Ah, I was trying to work out if a lack of stop just meant trunion on metal, or if it strained the rest of the system. Now I know, and it makes more sense of the failure. The leg is absolutely fine other than the eye bolt sitting at an angle! The split is good metal, no signs of it rusting through at all.

I think I'm more miffed at it being stress/ missing bump related than if it had been rot

If you have fitted or are going to fit poly bushes, I would NOT use them at the front of the tie bar, use rubber ones there.

One of my next questions was going to be bush related - I've read about using rubber on the tie bars, but what about the eye bolts? I'd prefer poly, but would they put too much strain on the leg long term?

[MoggyTech]

Poly bushes are fine everywhere except on the tie bars. Get Superflex if you can, as the quality of other brands does vary.

[Peetee]

Hmmmm, I'm getting a deja-vu feeling re: brake judder.
.

While you are re-bushing have a good look at the area of the chassis leg that the eyebolt passes through.

Poly bushes are fine everywhere except on the tie bars. Get Superflex if you can, as the quality of other brands does vary.

I've put them on the outer side of the mounting to resist brake forces and the inners remain rubber to flex enough for the arc on the suspension travel.

[Packedup]

Hmmmm, I'm getting a deja-vu feeling re: brake judder.
.

While you are re-bushing have a good look at the area of the chassis leg that the eyebolt passes through.

Me too - I was assured the chassis legs were good when I bought the car (to be fair to the seller, they are solid apart from a fatigue/ fracture which is quite hard to spot), which is why I discounted the idea at the time. And the bushes are also shot, as is one TRE - So the judder probably has more than one cause!

But welding, why did it have to involve welding? Not only do I have to beg favours to find somewhere to do it, I also really really really hate it

Re polybushes, I'm a big Superflex fan, but I think I'll order the ones from ESM at the same time as the chassis leg. Speeds things up and keeps the costs down a bit. I've got some rubber ones I could throw on, but I like the idea of getting this done once and for all rather than climbing back under in a few weeks/ months to mess around again.

[aupickup]

then get superflex , then u only do it the once, somepolys are a bit dubious, and mine did not fit

[les]

If, as you suggest, the leg is indeed rot free, and you feel able, you could cut a piece of the leg out, (6'' each side of the tube, 12'' in total)and within 1/2'' from top, and reconstruct or get reconstructed, the piece removed with attention to the internal stucture which gives this area its strength. The 'new' box section will need to be a little longer than that removed and the metal thickness wider to fit over the original leg, this may sound involved but does have the advantage of everything else staying in place

[Packedup]

then get superflex , then u only do it the once, somepolys are a bit dubious, and mine did not fit

Superflex are considerably more expensive, but obviously if they fit and the ones of my financial preference don't (and/ or don't last) that's the way to go. I'll bear it in mind

If, as you suggest, the leg is indeed rot free, and you feel able, you could cut a piece of the leg out, (6'' each side of the tube, 12'' in total)and within 1/2'' from top, and reconstruct or get reconstructed, the piece removed with attention to the internal stucture which gives this area its strength. The 'new' box section will need to be a little longer than that removed and the metal thickness wider to fit over the original leg, this may sound involved but does have the advantage of everything else staying in place

There's the usual careless jacking marks in the leg, and the obligatory surface rust (I was planning on making a start on cleaning up the underside and chassis blacking it in the next couple of weeks, that's postponed now) but no rot at all. The area that's gone has fractured, not rotted through.

I do like the sound of your plan, I know a full section is the best way to go, but I don't really trust myself to get it right and it's a heck of a lot of cutting out (of good metal!), made worse by me having to abuse someone elses generous loan of facilities. I've been wondering if a time/ ease effective, though not at all costs effective, way of doing it mightbe to buy the leg section and cut out what I need from that. The slight over/ undersize might be tricky without a joggler, but that's not insurmountable and would seem a lot less involved than taking most of the structure out of one side and hoping I'm good enough to put it back in straight!

[dunketh]

As the original seller I'm gutted to hear about this, for you personally and for the car.
As you've said the area was completely rot free so I'd never paid it much attention, what with the general mass of failed parts elsewhere.

The car was a total basket case when I bought it, I can only apologise if it remains so in certain places.

Whats more embarrassing/tragicly ironic is that I do have new bumpstops (F&R), I just never had time to fit them.
I'll shove them in the 'shed' tomorrow for you.

[Packedup]

As the original seller
I'm gutted to hear about this, for you personally and for the car.

Well, it keeps me (and itself!) off the streets...

As you've said the area was completely rot free so I'd never paid it much attention, what with the general mass of failed parts elsewhere.

That's the thing - It really doesn't look too bad at all, till you examine it very closely. A once over for rot wouldn't show it, and I didn't see it over the weekend when doing the brakes - Easy missed.

The car was a total basket case when I bought it, I can only apologise if it remains so in certain places.

No worries - It'll get better over time. I think I've got over my urge to throw the engine in the Midget and have a Minor shaped fireworks party ;)

Whats more embarrassing/tragicly ironic is that I do have new bumpstops (F&R), I just never had time to fit them.
I'll shove them in the 'shed' tomorrow for you.

Ah ha, thought you'd lost them (a bit like the spare springs I know I've got in there - Somewhere...)? A bit late now, but saves shelling out for some more this week, thanks

[les]

Even if you trust yourself, there's a lot to be said for keeping sound metal! Good luck which ever way you go!!

[Packedup]

I've got a new chassis leg section, so will have to see what lurks under the crud when i get chance to do the job. It looks like the chassis leg has either been replaced or the floor above it has at some point as there's dollops of mig instead of spot weld - This might make it easier to chop out and replace more metal, though I'd still prefer to keep as much as possible for so many reasons!

Taking a look at the new one, I see the inner reinforcement (that seems to be the main thing holding the tube) is only held on by a few spot welds. Is there any advantage in running a bead of mig around it to glue it to the outer skin a bit more (if I go the new leg route)?

When doing the nearside eye bolt bushes today I spotted a couple of very small cracks either side of the hole in the leg. Those *will* be welded as there's no sign of distortion so it's more a matter of stopping the spread IMO.

[les]

No harm in making the internal piece more secure, although it's amazing how strong spot welds are (try getting them apart!) The original part inside is shaped somewhat, which again helps with the strength, and also avoids a lot of metal doubling up which is not a good plan. A lot of replacements simply have another box section fitted inside the leg.
A good idea if you don't plan to weld the cracks in the other leg right away, is to drill a small hole at the crack end, this stops it spreading. I do this even if I'm welding the crack!