Legality of lights?

Post by **AndrewSkinner** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:29 pm

I own a 1959 Morris Minor that I cam currently re-spraying and slowly re-building. I would like to put it back to the original lighting set-up.

Currently it has front Sidelights/Indicators in one,
Rear brake lights and Indicators in one.

For a 2-door 1959 Morris minor am I correct in thinking that the front light cluster should be simply a sidelight and the rear light cluster simply a small round brake light with the indicators semaphores? Also if this is correct is it legal??

Also if I order a new wiring loom will it be totally original or will it have the wiring for the extra lights at the font and back?

Thanks for your time

Regards Andy

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:36 pm

Front light simply a single white light each side - rear light is single red, although not 'round'. This had the side/brake light inside - indicator was orange arm on door pillar!

Post by **AndrewSkinner** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:17 pm

so if i reverted it to what you are saying would it still be legal due to the age of the car??

Post by **Willie** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:46 pm

If you revert to the original layout then, yes, the lights will pass an MOT.
Think hard about using semaphores alone as they are not familiar to
95% of todays drivers and you would be an accident waiting to happen.

Post by **simmitc** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:46 pm

It would still be legal, but not practical, possibly even dangerous - modern drivers just don't see trafficators. That said, I know of one car with a large notice in the back window warning that trafficators are in use. Of course, that doesn't help the people in front, and a side arm is often completely hidden.

What I did was to have a changeover switch so that the stalk operated either the trafficators (show use) or the additional flashing lamps (road use). I love trafficators, but just can't recommend them for daily driving.

Post by **DAVIDMCCULLOUGH** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:43 pm

I always use hand signals when Im in a minor with only semaphores, there pretty useless especailly on a two door as there low down. On the traveller I have it set up with a flashing front sidelight, semaphore and a rear orange light all working together. Its pretty easy to set up and is detailed in the clubs tech tips.

If your ordering a loom you can specify what arrangement you want and even ask for extra wires to be included.

Post by **AndrewSkinner** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:17 pm

Ok thanks for all your replies!

After much consideration I think I am going to keep the current lighting and simply 'add' traficators as well. I hadn't thought of the 'danger' issues and I don't like the sound of someone going into the side of my car

cheers for your help guys!

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:09 pm

I use the speedo light switch and 2 relays to control whether the semaphores are in use - the speedo lights are now permanently wired into the side light circuit.

You will need two flasher units, one each side after the switch, instead of before, and then wire the semaphores back to the standard indicator switch.

Works well.

Post by **Alec** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:57 am

Hello all,

for those of you who are replacing headlights (e.g. fitting halogens) I suggest that it is worth fitting the type with an integral sidelight and connect that up.
I strongly feel that using sidelights contained within the headlights are much better for being seen in rain during daylight hours without causing a lot of dazzle which makes visibility worse, in as much as you can't see anything apart from bright headlights.

Alec

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:01 pm

Alec,

You're not suggesting driving on side lights only in poor visibility are you? The whole objective is to be seen, and in plenty of time! Properly adjusted head lights do not dazzle other drivers at any time.

Post by **FrankM83** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:09 pm

Andrew if you're looking for originality I've seen some Minors fit an indicator lamp under the bumper, as far as I could see from pictures it's like a mounting that bolts to one of the bumper bolts and you need not drill any extra holes in the body

Post by **Alec** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:46 pm

Hello Richard,

precisely, but as long as the side lights are integral to the headlamp unit. This gives a very visible light but not too bright as headlights are.
You are, I'm sure, aware that the eye adjusts to the light it receives and headlights in daytime especially in the rain do dazzle, adjusted correctly or not, and the eye closes internally. This, as I said in my post, means that virtually all you see are headlights, pedestrians, cyclists, and unlit vehicles virtually disappear.

Just look at cars that do have sidelights in the headlights and tell me that you can't see them?

Alec

Post by **AndrewSkinner** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:04 pm

Rite! Finaly won a pair of traficators from fleebay!! not bad at £46 for a pair!!

Next question is: Where should I take the wiring from?? I can't see my car at the moment becuase its 200miles away!! but is there an easy way to wire them up so that they work WITH the already fitted flashing indicators, or is this one of those jobs that needs a bit of trickery!?

Post by **IslipMinor** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:22 pm

sidelights in the headlights and tell me that you can't see them

That is my point entirely, in poor conditions (wet , fog, snow etc.) you cannot see side lights of any description!

I'm sure we will disagree, which is fine.

Post by **Alec** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Hello Andrew,

the problem you have with using the flashing indicators and semaphore indicators to gether is that the indicator switch has a pulsed feed to it from the flasher relay. If you connect the semaphores to the indicator switch then they would try and switch up and down with the flashers.

You either need two indicator switches, (impractical) or re-design the indicator circuit. Such as take a fused feed directly to the indicator switch and take the left\right outputs from the switch directly to the semaphores. Also take the same left\right outputs to a flasher relay in each left\right circuit then to the flashers. That is two flasher units, one in each leg of the supply to the lights.

Richard, yes we disagree.

Good luck.

Alec

Post by **IslipMinor** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:37 pm

Andrew,

First question is how many flasher units have been fitted, since it is a conversion?

If one, it will have been fitted before the indicator switch, which means it will not work with the trafficators.

Remove the flasher unit temporarily, reconnect the fused ignition switch fed supply back to the indicator switch, disconnect the wires from the indicator switch to the flashers and reconnect the trafficators directly to the indicator switch. Buy an additional flasher unit and connect one to each side of the output from the indicator switch, using the same connection as the trafficators. Connect the output from each flasher to the relevant side's flashers.

If you want to isolate the trafficators, or flashers, you will need to connect a relay into each side and a switch to operate the two relays.

If you already have two flashers, they will be after the indcator switch, so the trafficators can be reconnected straight to the indicator switch. The same comment will apply to whether you want to turn either of the turn signals off. I have a switch to turn the trafficators off, as they are not really designed for motorway speeds!

After posting this, see that Alec has already replied - at least the suggested solution is the same!!

Post by **Alec** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:47 am

Hello Richard,

well we agree on that topic anyway

,,

Alec

Morris Minor Owners Club

Legality of lights?

Legality of lights?

lights

WHOOP WHOOP! got trafficators