starting from cold

[docgibbons]

the old girl used to start up first time, with instant smooth running, but lately she's been starting up as though there's a plug lead hanging off (which it isn't). ergo, three, four, maybe five pulls on the starter, then a sort of stuttering, but after careful use of the throttle, and putting the choke back in slowly, she then runs smoothly when getting warm. and when warm, she starts up fine, with no flat spots on the throttle. if anyone knows what is causing this, maybe plugs, points, whatever, i'd be grateful.

[Orkney]

Rotor arm, distributor could be corroded and not giving a good spark.
Odd that it starts well once warm.
Worth whipping the plugs out and checking for clealiness and correct gap too.
Sorry cant suggest anything more useful, guess process of elimination is the way to go starting with the easiest and most obvious first.

[bmcecosse]

Just do ALL the ignition bits (starting with plugs) - they cost almost nothing, and then you should be trouble free for a year at least! If it's struggling to start now - just wait till winter comeas along!

[docgibbons]

thanks for the help. it just struck me as odd that it runs perfectly when warmed up (which only takes a minute or so) and thought it might be something familiar to someone, and maybe specific to one part. but i will renew everything electrical before winter, plugs, points, rotor arm etc, just to make sure.

[chickenjohn]

Yes, get a service kit and renew it all.

[Orkney]

Reason I said rotor & dizzy is as follows..
On my range rover ( in know not a mog ) it suffers a similar thing every so often. The problem is the oxidisation of the 'pins' inside the distributor cap.
Climate doesnt help, nor does the competition coil, leads and plugs, so guess this is the weak point in the ignition.
Once they are clean (just scrape the muck off to clean metal with a sharp knife) it starts 1st turn of teh starter motor, but as the crud builds up its less responsive on start - so might go to 4-6 turns.
Thing is that once its warm the problem dissapears - which could be that teh sparks have made a fresh track in the cap through teh oxidization - also of course once warm a lot less friction and energy to turn the crank etc required.
It might sound a bit daft but thats the cause of the problem on that engine.
Renewing everything is the way to go as everyone else has said, you just have to love the price of Moggy spares

[iandromiskin]

Funny enough I sometimes have the same experience with Gertie where it takes a few pulls of the starter to get her going from cold. I must have a look at the distributer cap and scrape off any reside and see what happens. If she's still the same I'll have a look at the plugs and if need be change the points etc.

[Rob_Jennings]

simple no cost options first....

check and seat leads
check and clean rotor arm (do not use emery paper, just clean it off and polish it dry)
check condition of dizzy cap
check point condition and gap, poor point probably biggest cause of poor starts and bad running
check plugs

after those options then you a probably looking at replacing components as advised by others replace anything that 'failed' a check above. start with points, rotor arm and condenser then plugs then leads, then dizzy cap then coil in that order to trace faults or all of them just to be sure.

I favour ponts and condenser as the fault as just went through this loop on the mini, poor coil normally shows at hot runing and poor leads/cap/rotor arm will show all over the place its amazing what a new set of leads can fix at times

[chickenjohn]

Don;t forget to check the low tension wire that runs between the coil and the points. If this looks dodgy you can buy new ones for a fiver with the correct connections on the ends.

[iandromiskin]

check condition of dizzy cap

I'am probably sounding stupid here , but if you dont' ask you'll never find out, but what is a dizzy cap ?

[alex_holden]

I'am probably sounding stupid here , but if you dont' ask you'll never find out, but what is a dizzy cap ?

Dizzy is slang for distributor.

[lynda]

One of mine had a similar problem, and it turned out to be the coil at fault. The problem varied slightly depending on the petrol I'd put in there as well, but it gradually got worse until one day she didn't start at all!

[docgibbons]

thanks for all the input. one more thing is that the starting problem co-incided almost precisely after my local garage replaced the needle and float in the carburettor. i'm maybe wondering whether the mixture settings got disturbed in the process, and it might be something in that area rather than electrical.

[Axolotl]

It seemed to me when I read your first post that the problem was more likely fuel related than ignition.

The fact that the problem started after a garage had replaced the carburettor needle seems to confirm this. An unlikely coincidence otherwise.

It could be simply that your choke mechanism isn't working as it should. i.e. you are not actually getting full choke when you pull the choke out.

Two or three goes at starting will pump enough petrol into the system to enrich the mixture enough to start, then as the engine warms up, you need less choke, so the system starts to work properly, even without the choke.

Maybe the garage disconnected the choke cable and didn't put it back right?

Take the air filter off and have a close squint at the mechanism while someone works the choke control.

You should be able see the jet tube at the bottom of the carburettor drop by about 5/16" (about 2/3 cm) as the choke is pulled out, and go back up again, when the choke is pushed in.

Check when the choke is pushed all the way in, that the cable is just straight, not bowed and pushing against the nipple it clamps in. If it is bowing, then it has been fixed too long, so it won't fully operate the lever when it is pulled out.

There is also a fast idle adjustment that should open the throttle slightly as the choke is pulled out about 1/4", before the jet tube starts to drop. Check that is happening when you've got the engine started and it is warm. Pulling the choke out 1/4" should speed the tickover up, without stalling the engine by enriching the mixture.

Of course, you could just take it back to the garage, and tell them to fix it!

[Axolotl]

after my local garage replaced the needle and float in the carburettor

Why did they do that? Were you having mixture problems before then?

[wibble_puppy]

check the level of the oil in the damper, too

[rayofleamington]

Why did they do that? Were you having mixture problems before then?

most likely reason to do that was due to flooding - if the float and needle are not working correctly then fuid continues to go into the carb when it's already full.

[Axolotl]

most likely reason to do that was due to flooding

Ray, I know that's why they might have done it, what I meant was, what were the problems that caused him to go to the garage in the first place? They may have something to do with what's wrong now.

[docgibbons]

i can confirm the needle and float replacement was due to the carb flooding, not all the time, but quite often.

[docgibbons]

oh by the way Axolotl, thanks again for your input, but just to let you know that i managed to injure my back after your post, and have not yet been able to get under the bonnet to look at it. but i will do, and let you know whether your advice solves the problem. in the meantime, my wife has driven her a couple of times since, and in addition to the sticky starting, she says that while it still runs fine when the engine is warm, there is occasionally some slight misfiring (again like only having three plugs working) when pulling away at low revs, or when, say, changing down from third to second gear and pulling away. don't know whether this sounds electrical, some dirt somewhere maybe, or whether it might still be a choke or mixture thing. anyway, hope to be fit enough to investigate soon.