how to tell if clutch is worn....

[rayofleamington]

I know - but looks just like a bit of water pipe

Yes, except for being a different colour, material, length, diameter and thickness.

[bigginger]

True, except that the colour's similar, as are the diameter and (at a glance) thickness, and a bit of water pipe is whatever length you make it. Fair point, otherwise...

[wibble_puppy]

hoy! stop bickering in the back there! or you can get out and walk

So I've taken the clutch off the engine, mmmm i am loving the friction plate, it looks just like something which would be a freaky key to another dimension or let loose an age-old demon in a film... *nods*

but I can see this little bronze doohickey, lodged nice and snug in the throat of the engine..... now how do I get it out?

[bmcecosse]

It's in the crank tail - NOT in the flywheel. And the lengthy advice in the manuals about dismantling clutches is largely a waste of paper and ink - best to NOT dismantle or fiddle with the clutch pressure plate assembly in any way. Just fit it back on (provided the face plate is not all 'cracked' - light 'crazing ' is ok) with a new friction plate if needed. To be honest - if the bronze (actually sintered bronze, usually by 'Oilite') bush is in there it really is unlikely to be seriously worn. The problem comes if it's missing! I would leave well alone. The normal removal method involves packing in grease (or oil if vertical) and then using a tight fitting wooden dowel (like valve grind tool handle) aim it at the hole in the centre and smack hard with a largish hammer. Be prepared to get grease all over your face etc, but hopefully you will find the bush is now on the dowel shaft!

[wibble_puppy]

best to NOT dismantle or fiddle with the clutch pressure plate assembly in any way

yeah, that was the message i was picking up from the workshop manual thanks for your advice

I've had a look at all the parts (without disassembling the cover-plate-and-pressure-plate lineup, they look so cosy) and to be honest they look in pretty good nick to my extremely ignorant eyes... Plenty of carbon bulging up in the release bearing; rivet heads still well below the surface of the friction plate, etc. There was some play in the release fork though where it bolts to the inside of the gearbox bellhousing (I really hope I am getting all these words right ) so i am taking that along tomorrow too (the release fork not the bellhousing) - i can see there is a bush in there too so maybe it's that which is at fault. Anyway tomorrow it will be over to greater minds than mine Off to check van's record to see if I can find out when this clutch was fitted.

thanks again for all your help everyone! Kevin how do you get your bronze bush out, if it isn't too personal a question? as from what bmcecosse says it's likely to turn into a bit of a mud wrestling display lol

[Packedup]

It's in the crank tail - NOT in the flywheel.

However, it is accessed through the hole in the flywheel.

So to all intents abnd purposes, for the sake of this discussion that will suffice

And the lengthy advice in the manuals about dismantling clutches is largely a waste of paper and ink - best to NOT dismantle or fiddle with the clutch pressure plate assembly in any way. Just fit it back on (provided the face plate is not all 'cracked' - light 'crazing ' is ok) with a new friction plate if needed.

I would have agreed until a couple of weeks ago. Although the pressure plate wasn't helped much by using it to lift the input shaft, the second time around it was nearly perfect looking again.

However, a good used one went on, and the car drives far better than it ever has in the couple of months I've had it. With the old pressure plate the clutch disengaged with the pedal pretty much on the floor, and the pressure plate could be felt to be in action right the way to the top of the travel (hydraulic clutch). With the new pressure plate full on to full off is about 50% of the travel, as it should be (though it's moved from full disengaged at the floor to half way up the travel, annoyingly. I guess that's self adjusting hydraulics for you).

So a seemingly fine one can still be duff, I suppose the springs lose their bounce with age. Not that I'd bother rebuilding one (where do you find the right springs easily?), but I might be tempted to throw a known good s/h or cheapy new old stock one on. Never have in the past, but now not quite so complacent!

[wibble_puppy]

I might be tempted to throw a known good s/h or cheapy new old stock one on. Never have in the past, but now not quite so complacent!

Ah, that's why I milk your brains so frequently, you guys - I am leeching on your experience Thanks very much for your advice Packedup

[bigginger]

Still looks like a bit of pipe

[wibble_puppy]

it looks like a special bit of pipe. Kind of Roman.... antiquey feel to it....

[rayofleamington]

Packedup,
It sounds to me like your pressure plate was coming loose on one of the pivot mount bolts - that gives a vibration to the pedal and eventually leads to it being impossible to fully open the clutch despite using the complete stroke of the pedal.
I had the lovely task of replacing one of those about 18 months ago (on someone elese's car - no wonder rarely get time to work on my own cars - tssk )

[minor_hickup]

Is there an easy way to test the pressure plate? I had a temperamentla clutch that would slip, and if used heavily spin. When removing the friction plate had loads of 'meat' on it but new clutch kit fixed it. So I assume it was the pressure plate.

[Packedup]

Packedup,
It sounds to me like your pressure plate was coming loose on one of the pivot mount bolts - that gives a vibration to the pedal and eventually leads to it being impossible to fully open the clutch despite using the complete stroke of the pedal.

No, that's what happened after killing the pressure plate (one finger low, all three spring clips for the thrust surface stretched and on the floor...) replacing the friction plate!

Before that the pedal was "odd" and the clutch slipped, but there was no vibration... I'm not sure a non-slipping but hellishly vibrating and not disengaging clutch was a great improvement, but after leaving the car a fortnight it had healed itself to some extent

The old pressure plate is now in a bin as far as I know. I did think about taking it apart to investigate (and maybe rebuild), but as I have a spare NOS Borg and Beck and a seemingly healthy s/h B&B fitted I didn't bother. Plus I may well be committed to getting that other good s/h one off here, and just how many spares does one engine need!?

Still looks like a bit of pipe icon_biggrin.gif

Trouble is, you know someone will read this one day, and try sticking a bit of old central heating pipe in there...

Is there an easy way to test the pressure plate? I had a temperamentla clutch that would slip, and if used heavily spin. When removing the friction plate had loads of 'meat' on it but new clutch kit fixed it. So I assume it was the pressure plate.

If the friction plate wasn't glazed or obviously oiled up then it sounds like pressure plate to me. In the distant past I was told the fingers need to be level, and the springs need to be healthy and not weak/ "lazy". I guess aside from checking the face wasn't warped, cracked etc and the fingers were level, the only other check is how much force was needed to compress the springs. Probably best to take it apart and check each one indivdually, but then where do you get them and are they cheap enoguh to make it worthwhile?

If I'd got the clutch off before ordering bits I'd have probably re-used the friction plate and thrown a new pressure one on, if the friction one was obviously healthy. But then my cutting corners doesn't always work, otherwise I wouldn't have so much to say on this thread! ;)