LED Legality

[Packedup]

I've just found the following at http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/newsletters/2005-newsletters.htm

LED LIGHTS

The item in issue 5/2004 on the use of LED clusters for the rear lights on old vehicles was either over simplistic or unnecessarily complicated, depending on your point of view. It ended with the words ‘if it has an e-mark, and works, it’s legal.’ In the context in which it was written, the phrase could have been simplified to ‘if it works, it’s legal’. The benefit of using LED clusters is that they give a better light and use less power than the conventional bulbs they replace.

Although regulations normally require that lamps are e-marked, this of course does not apply to those vehicles that were in use before the relevant European regulations were in existence, so the e-mark element is a red herring as far as all but the very youngest classic vehicles are concerned and the lights and charging systems fitted to those youngsters are unlikely to have need of assistance from modern technology.

Further research (with the help of Mike Lowe at the Department for Transport) into the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations (1989), its schedules and three subsequent amendments reveals that the regulations for each type of lamp differ. For vehicles first used prior to 1972, no lamps need to be e-marked. For vehicles made between 1972 and 1974, the front lamps have to be e-marked while for those made between 1974 and 1986, the indicators do not have to be e-marked, but most other lamps do. Going back the other way, where lamps are not e-marked, there is sometimes a specified power requirement, but for others there is no standard set other than that the lights should be visible from a reasonable distance and angle. In the case of stop lamps, a power range of between 15 and 36 watts is specified, but there is no stipulation in respect of front and rear position lamps.

Consequently, there is nothing in law to stop anyone with a vehicle first used prior to 1972 fitting LED front and rear position lamps (or fitting LED rear position lamps to vehicles first used in 1972 and 3) whether they are e-marked or not. For later vehicles, such lamps MUST be e-marked, so (presumably) the LED rear light sets available for many popular modern cars must have been Type Approved and be so marked.

None of this, of course, addresses the issue of whether it is practical to fit such lamps. For those who use old vehicles after dark on today’s roads, it is far more important to be seen than it is to maintain total originality in the lighting department, and that means being willing and able to use headlamps when all other vehicles are using them rather than having to conserve battery by driving on side lights alone for as long as possible, so the theory is excellent – but does it work? Feedback to the secretary would be welcome.

So it seems LED lights can be road legal then, I think!

[Willie]

But how many LEDs does it take to produce the equivalent of the minimum of 5W illumination for the side lights, viewable from the the same angles?

[Onne]

That is great though! Where can I find this official piece of paper? I will try and sort the bumper bolt rear indicators out now!

[JimK]

Willie, Rob Jennings has fitted LED sidelights. Aprt from a blue-ish tint they have the same spread and are brighter. They are made up of a cluster of white LEDs pointing in various directions.

Onne, I'd be careful about that idea, cool though it sounds. Remember that LEDs are very directional - you must make sure that they can be clearly seen from the side, too.

[Willie]

JIM, fine, but do you know how many he had to use to satisfy the criteria?

[dp]

Busses around my way are using LED rear indicators, side and stop lamps. This suggests to me that they must be legal.

[Rob_Jennings]

As Jim has said I'm in the process of fitting LED lights throughout the car.

So far on the Minor:

Front side lights replaced with a BAS9 bulb that consists of one ultra bright forward and 4 sideway facing LEDs, slightly blue/white but very bright and even illumination in all directions.

Rear tail/stop replaced with 33 led cluster with 3 angles of LEDs, defiantly brighter than the original bulb and gives full illumination in all directions

Interior light replaced for 18 LED festoon replacement, very bright.

Still to be added:

Number plate lamps same as side light above, just need to fit them now.

Indicators, cluster based on 24 LEDS, in 2 angles, look fine in lens with illumination in all directions and brighter than the original. But I need to get an LED pulse/flasher unit before I can fit these. I'm not opting for load resistors as that makes a mess of the wires, and removes most of the point of LEDs (low power use). I'll select a pulser that can drive normal bulbs too so can mix and match if necessary.

Dash Bulbs, looking at a possible replacement for the dash bulbs have found one source but its rather pricey. These are harder to source as the LEDs cannot be wider than the metal base, unlike the BAS9 type.

On the mini I have replaced the tail/stop light with the same as the above and again happy that its superior to the bulb I removed. Indicators etc will also follow on that car.

At the end of the day it will all use a fraction of the power of the original, be a lot brighter and almost never need replacing. I can't see how the MOT man can object, and given the information above I should be fine.

If anyone wants some tips on the bulbs I used I'll post up some more info?

One important thing is that the number and directions fo the LEDs is the most important factor, not the brightness of one LED. There are plenty of 1 Watt high power single LED bulbs which produce amazing amounts of light but its all in one directions and therefore no good in practice.

Wattage quotes are rather wasted, since most of it comes out as light they all tend to be brighter by nature. Bit like modern headlamps getting too bright as their technology advances, one day soon I imagine they will measure light output rather than power consumed.

[paulhumphries]

I bought a stop/tail LED bulb for my motorbike a few years ago.
Bright if directly behind but virtually no light if off centre and nothing on the side.
The numberplate wasn't lit either so it got binned.
The bulbs have change quite a lot since the rubbish one I bought.
They have a LOT of LED's in the cluster and also have them around the sides to illuminate the whole light housing including no plate.
It's still a case of getting what you pay for so if cheap then don't be surprised if they are like the rubbish one I bought all those years ago.

This person can supply LED bulbs -
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyleds.htm

You can probbaly get them a little cheaper if shopping around but use his details as a guide as to what you need to look for.

Paul Humphries.

[JimK]

Ahhhh, Rob. I thought you'd appear before too long. I was just looking for where you said which bulbs you had, and as I can't find it could you post the information again?

[M25VAN]

I've got the LED side lights at the front and they are nice and bright. I haven't fitted rear ones yet as I had some dodgy wiring and also the need for the new type of flasher unit. One thing I will say though is that the current bulbs sit so far inside the holder that any sideways illumination must be from what spreads out from the (flat) lenses. So the LED should provide the same level of illumination spread.

[lowedb]

There's no doubt that LEDs are legal on cars designed with them. There are a number around now with LED tail lamps, some with LED turn signals too: Golf plus, Passatt, Phaeton, Bentley Continental, Bentley azure, are the ones I'm familar with.

As for how many it takes, well it depends on the power and the lens. LEDS come in so many brightness values, and with a variety of different viewing angles, though generally brighter LEDS have a narrower angle. There are some 'super LEDs available' that are so powerful, they com premounted on a heatsink. The design of the lens and reflectors are also important.

For information, the reason for the Blue tinge on most white LEDs is that they are a Blue LED wth a flourescent patch in front.

[wibble_puppy]

Is it just me that finds some LED lighting on cars too bright?

I find it really distracting - not good for road safety!

Great that they use less juice though - with more and more electrical add-ons being fitted to Minors the battery does take a pounding!