Timing Chain and Leaking Axle

Post by **wanderinstar** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:52 pm

I definatly second that, some sassanach's put WATER in it.

Post by **Relfy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:41 am

Yay! having got a proper puller at Christmas both sprockets are now off and not too much damage. The only thing is the cup supplied with the kit for the oil thrower is too small for the crank. She didnt actually have one atall when I started the job... so I'm just wondering, is there definitley meant to be one?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:46 am

Errr - yes it must have an oil thrower. But it's not normal to get a new one - the old one is used over and over again. some are indeed 'cup' shaped - often they are just an almost flat disc. If it's too small - only slightly I assume - then file it out till it fits!

Post by **Relfy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:51 am

No its way too small... is the felt disk meant to go inside it? cos there's no way that'll happen either.

Post by **Onne** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:56 am

The felt disc (or more modern seal) should go in the timing cover itself.

The supplier usually supplies both sort of seals, one for the earlier A-series, and one for the later ones

Post by **Relfy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:59 am

Oh right. That explains that then. Oh. lol. On ESM what I thought was the oil thrower is the pulley lock washer.

Has anyone got an oil thrower they dont want

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:37 am

What the &^*%'s a 'whisky mac ' ???

Drunken Scotsman in an old raincoat perhaps

Seriously though I didnt realise it was some form of drink I assumed it was what they asked for in bars over the pond, as in can I have a `whisky` mac (mate in US slang) but there again my ignorance/lack of knowledge has no boundaries

Post by **Relfy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:14 pm

A whiskey mac is whiskey with ginger wine - as in the alcoholic sort.

And who's a sassanach?? Most highlanders would definitely consider Lancashire as lowland.

Post by **Relfy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:34 pm

What do I do with these big rubber tensioners? I definitely didnt take any of them OFF.

Post by **JimK** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:44 pm

Relfy wrote:And who's a sassanach??

A Scotsman in England is a Sassenach, just like an Englishman in Scotland. It just means "outlander" and used to have legal significance.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:04 pm

Ahh - so it's an Irish drink - whiskEy being a product of Ireland.

I was going to ask if it was simply the lock washer! You MUST have an oil thrower - no wonder it was leaking if there was none in there. The rubber bands go over the rims of the bigger chain wheel - in the grooves. I hope you are not trying to use the old felt seal - these are truly hopeless. Far far better with the proper rubber seal - but of course it needs the later timing case cover.

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:34 pm

A Scotsman in England is a Sassenach,

Not heard that one before and having scots blood I had a quick look and lo and behold.
Sassenach is a word used chiefly by the Scots and to designate an Englishman or a Lowlands Scot.It derives from the Gaelic Sasunnach meaning, originally, "Saxon".
So it means My family are Sassenach as they are Lowlanders.
Looks like it was originally a term of distain towards the English as there is an Irish language version Sasanach and a Welsh version Saesneg that both mean Englishman.
So it means my family heraldry is
Lowland Saxon Scot but regarded as an Englishman by the Irish & Welsh
Wish I hadnt looked it up now

Post by **Relfy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:39 pm

I was going to ask if it was simply the lock washer! You MUST have an oil thrower - no wonder it was leaking if there was none in there. The rubber bands go over the rims of the bigger chain wheel - in the grooves. I hope you are not trying to use the old felt seal - these are truly hopeless. Far far better with the proper rubber seal - but of course it needs the later timing case cover.

Yeah, I am pretty positive there wasn't one, and I thought at the time "isnt there meant to be an oil thrower?" but I'll have another search when i get home incase I'm just being dippy. Not been leaking though (thats the axle!), and oil everywhere inside the case/on the chain etc so it seems to be spreading itself around ok despite it.
Got the modern seal for the cover, so have managed to get the old one out and change it, just waiting for the oil thrower.... aw.... which noone has one they want to give away/sell

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:37 am

Sorry - only got enough for each of my (admittedly many) engines.

Post by **Relfy** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:35 am

Oh right... my cam sprocket is quite chipped at the back (not me honest!!) and no rubber tensioners. Are those tensioners strictly necessary?
I also cant see in the book a cupshaped lock washer like the one in the kit - and i didnt take one off, for definite! So I'm beginning to wonder if I have a totally different car all together??

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:42 pm

The later Mini versions of the A series (A + engines) have a flat plain sprocket on the cam - but this is used with proper rubber tensioner pad which is spring mounted. This is all inside the timing cover - which has a bulge in it. Your cam sprocket should have two 'gutters' around the edge of the teeth - and the rings go in there. The outer edges of these gutters are fragile - they may have been snapped off in earlier efforts to remove the sprocket. The rings are a feeble attempt to cushion and quieten the chain - doesn't really work but better than nothing. The 'cup' shaped lock washer is meant to go under the starter dog - does it fit over the thread on the dog ? The best conversion is to fit the duplex chain (and chain wheels) - pioneered on Cooper S and then used on most 1275 engines until they developed the rubber pad tensioner.

Post by **Relfy** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:50 pm

S'ok! I think I'm sorted now, spent 5 mins on the phone to the good people at bull motif - I do have a flat thing which I reckon is the oil thrower. I was looking for a cup shaped thing... Yay. I can finally get my car together (provided nothing else on the boat breaks and noone else appears to break my car). This has been the longest short job ever!

Post by **Relfy** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:54 pm

Oops! I didnt see your reply there bmcesosse. Thanks. Yes you've just said exactly what they said!

- the washer for the starter dog, and the oil thrower is my flat disk with the F on and the tensioners dont really work. AND I've just noticed you said it could be just a flat disk ages ago and I didnt read properly. That'll teach me.
I dont reckon i'll worry too much about it otherwise (re duplex chains etc) as my engine is knackered anyhow.... although it has been knackered for over a year now and still hasnt died. ;)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Ok - good luck with it. Take great care to get the cam timing correct when putting it all back together.

Post by **Relfy** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:55 am

Yay!

All back together and sounding lovely. I did a complete service while I was at it and can feel the guilt dropping off, not to mention being really chuffed with myself.

All I've got to do now is find Bill and tell him its all ok