Is it this easy?

Post by **millerman** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:37 pm

There have been several threads re alternative wheels for Minors.
So, if i wonder along to the car breaker, get an appropriate wheel bring it home , remove a front hub or 1/2 shaft put the wheel on top to use as a guide to drll holes for the Ford, etc. wheel studs. Put the studs in, fit wheels and away I go!!!

Or am i likely to have BIG problems?

Cheers all

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:07 am

You need to make sure that the flange around the stud has enough metal (least likely to be a problem with 100mm PCD). It needs to be very accurately machined to prevent runout.
You'll need to redrill your (cast Iron) drums accurately as well.
But basically if done by a good machine shop, this will give a good result (it's not 'very common' but it is common practise)

The rear may be less of a problem - the front could be harder. If the front hub has 4 lobes (can't remember properly - it's too late and I've been working on the Land Rover hubs this evening) then you will need to get the new holes to sit where the old holes were but on a slightly different centre.
If you use bigger diameter studs it is possible to completely remove all traces of the old stud hole - which would be 'best practise'.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:21 am

Very difficult to do this properly unless you have a machine shop at your disposal. As Ray says - the front hubs are 'square' and so the new studs would need to go almost where the old ones are at the moment. I would say it would very unwise to attempt this using only hand tools ! Why do it anyway ? Some of the alloy wheel manufacturers (certainly Minilite) will make wheels for you at 4 " pcd - - if you are willing to go down to 13" diameter there are shed loads of wheels produced for the classic Mini on 4" pcd (always plenty on ebay) - and if just want some wider wheels then the later van wheels are 4 1/2 J and they are around if willing to pay the price - good thing is they will always hold that price and probably rise again, so it's like putting money in the bank!

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:51 am

Or am i likely to have BIG problems?

Yes, I am afraid

Post by **plastic_orange** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:14 pm

This job is always better entrusted to a machine shop - or DIYer with appropriate tools/skill. It is not difficult however and allows you to fit what you want (within reason). However, as bmcecosse has said - try Ebay first off for wheels that will fit your existing pcd - I know minilites are a bit common, but there are others out there - just have patience and they will turn up.

Pete

Post by **Innovator** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:40 pm

I had my Celica (4.5") axle modified to Ford (4.25") stud spacing. A top hat shape was turned up to fill the existing stud hole. The top hat part was on the back side. Then the 1/2 shafts were redrilled to 4.25" PCD.

I did the drums with my pillar drill using the 1/2 shaft as a jig. The drums are less critical as they locate on the centre. They are then clamped between the wheel and half shaft. The holes are there to let the studs pass through.

The same principle can be used on the front hubs.

Its certainly not easy but can be done.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:25 pm

Yes - but ^^^^^^^ involves lots of machine shop work - not everyone has this at their disposal.

Post by **Packedup** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:57 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Vif you are willing to go down to 13" diameter there are shed loads of wheels produced for the classic Mini on 4" pcd (always plenty on ebay)

I'll bet there's quite a few 14" as well - When I had Minis people were starting to go 14" for some reason.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:24 pm

I have never found a Mini on 14" wheels - and i have ben watching for any on the Mini sites and on ebay - none found so far.

Post by **Packedup** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:31 pm

I'm going back around 10 or 11 years - MiniWorld mag was full of people with rolled arches and stupidly big wheels fitted, Ithought it must have been a popular enough fad for the wheels to be floating around on the used market now, but obviously not

Post by **wanderinstar** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:35 pm

Just a thought. What PCD are MGB's. Those sculpted wheels look nice.

Post by **Packedup** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:05 pm

MGBs are the same as Triumph 2000 and Stag. 4.5" rings a bell (I really ought to know this, but can't remember), but whether that's right or not it's definately not the same as later Minors. I have a feeling the very early Minors had the same PCD though...

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:40 pm

Just be glad they haven't got 4 x 5" PCD!!

Post by **Robins** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:17 pm

Depends what wheels you'r after and what you can find, but you could always re-drill the wheels to fit the car, you can always change back in the future then, or if a half shaft goes you won't have to get one altered before fitting.
I had a set of weller 8 spoke wheels drilled so they take Morris and Ford PCD. Just a thought.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:19 pm

Aye -but Wellers are just flat steel on the mounting face I think ??

Post by **jonathon** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:27 pm

I'd be very wary about redrilling either alloys or steels. Contact the manfacturer to see if this is wise, and that the wheels structure is not compromised by the additional holes.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:38 pm

Steel weels have a 'reinforced' section around the nut - this may well be to prevent stress cracking, so if you just drill in a flat steel area it's not going to be the same. The raised area next to the nut also allows a bigger contact area for the V shaped back ot the nut, which also helps reduce the stress concentrations. Thirdly the area where the nut fits is slightly raised -this allows the entire face of the drum/disk/hub to be in contact with the wheel for strength. If you put bolts into a flat area, then the steel distorts under load and only the area by the nut is in contact with the drum/disk/hub.
Concentricity:
Unless you have some centre bore locating rings made to ensure the wheel is fully concentric then you still need the rim mods done with specialist machine tools to get the accuracy.
Hand drilling the holes won't be that accurate, although with a LOT of care (more care than I could manage) and then some accurate filing to get things right afterwards it could be 'good enough' regarding concentricity (but you still need to be sure about the strength of the steel where the nuts fit).

Alloys: Some come with 2 sets of drillings anyway but the wheel centres are designed differently to accomodate that. For alloys with 4 holes, I've not seen any that are designed to have additional holes drilled (the bosses are missing behind). I guess that some alloys could be ok, but it depends completely on how that area is designed.

Post by **Robins** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:41 pm

good point, redrilling alloys is not wise and your right most steels do have the raised parts for the nuts, I should have kept quiet.
But, wellers are just a flat plate in the middle and the holes on mine are originally just holes and countersunk for the nut, so I had them done the same with different pattern by an engineer.
You could just stick a mk1/2 escort axle in, convert to front sierra disc conversion with ford PCD hubs and make life simple with a huge choice of ford rims.

Post by **millerman** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:17 pm

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on my tongue-in-cheek question. At present I run 165 x 13 wheels on a marina setup which is , presumably 4" PCD. I am considering getting the hubs re-drilled to the Ford PCD to give a greater choice of rims.

Post by **Robins** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:27 pm

If your running marina setup then you have a wider choice of wheels already. If I remember correctly marina PCD is the same as modern Rovers have, 98mm I think which is the same as some old Triumphs because I put Montego wheels on a Vitesse kitcar. They did some nice alloys for the later Rovers, Isn't the traveller on the front of the latest Minor Monthly on Marina running gear and Rover alloys? sounds like problem could be resolved.